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[eharper256]

Hello everyone. I've just recently got into Doom RL a week ago. I've previously played a fair bit of Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup (only ever had 1 win with that though! I'm not exactly amazing), wanted a slight break from that, and realised DoomRL has tiles (sorry, I'm allergic to console!), so I figured why not give it a shot?

Anyway, spent a few deaths finding my feet on ITYTD, switched over to HNTR, and here's my first significant progress, a Gun Kata Scout. Hopefully any present masters will give me some further advice!

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.9.6G) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Homer Peron, level 8 Imp Lance Corporal Scout,
 rode a mancubi rocket on level 3 of Hell.
 He survived 62018 turns and scored 48817 points.
 He played for 1 hour, 18 minutes and 37 seconds.
 He didn't like it too rough.

 He killed 346 out of 378 hellspawn. (91%)
 He held his right to remain violent.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 4
  Levels completed : 1

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Gatekeeper Bronze Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ./.........#......./.}.............../.....0.#..===....####
  .#........./.......#.#######/#######.#......./}.===....####
  .#........%#########.#..........==.#.#########...==...h####
  .#........}/.......#.#=.......==.==#.#......0+....=..0}####
  ./....0...}#......./.#===....=====.#0/.......#.......^.####
  #####+####.####/#######=#=##/####/#######/####+####/#######
  .+........==.......+.....=.#........./....#.......#....####
  .#.........==......#...==..#.........#....#.......#..}.####
  .#........=.==.....#....=..#........0#....+0....../....####
  .#########/#########+#######.........#.0..#.......#....####
  .+.................+......./.........+....#.......#....####
  #####/####/####+##==##./####/####/#######/####/####/#######
  .+.........#....====......./===....../.M...............####
  .#........./....=====#######==X=.....#.................####
  .#.........#####=#=#=...|}.#..==.....#.................####
  .#........./.....===.......#.........#.....|...........####
  ./..>......#......./.......#........}+.................####
  ###########################################################
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/50   Experience 26460/8
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Son of a gun     (Level 3)
    Dualgunner       (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Gun Kata         (Level 1)

  SoG->SoG->DG->HR->SoG->HR->DM->MGK->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   tactical armor [0/0] (56%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   double shotgun (9d3)x2 [0/2]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   protective boots [2/2] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   speedloader pistol (2d4) [1/6]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] speedloader pistol (2d4) [3/6]
    [b] rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1]
    [c] BFG 9000 (11d8) [60/100] (P1)
    [d] Grammaton Cleric Beretta (2d6) [18/18]
    [e] blue armor [2/2] (100%)
    [f] shotgun shell (x50)
    [g] shotgun shell (x8)
    [h] rocket (x10)
    [i] power cell (x50)
    [j] power cell (x50)
    [k] power cell (x20)
    [l] thermonuclear bomb
    [m] power mod pack
    [n] shockwave pack
    [o] blood skull

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Acid       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 25% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    59 former humans
    44 former sergeants
    15 former captains
    67 imps
    35 demons
    76 lost souls
    21 cacodemons
    8 hell knights
    2 barons of hell
    3 arachnotrons
    5 former commandos
    5 pain elementals
    1 mancubus
    2 arch-viles
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 Cyberdemon

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 3 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena before it got too hot.
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 7 he witnessed the Wall.
  Not knowing what to do, he left.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 10 he encountered an armed nuke!
  On level 11 he assembled a speedloader pistol!
  On level 11 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
  On level 14 he assembled a speedloader pistol!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  He flooded the entire level 17 with lava!
  On level 19 he assembled a tactical armor!
  On level 19 he found the Grammaton Cleric Beretta!
  On level 19 he finally rode a mancubi rocket.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You open the door.
 You open the door.
 You open the door.
 You open the door.
 You see : a former sergeant (unhurt) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The former sergeant dies.
 You picked up a Grammaton Cleric Beretta (2d6) [18/18].
 You picked up a shockwave pack.
 You reload the double shotgun.
 You open the door.
 You open the door.
 You open the door.
 You are hit! Boom!
 You see : a mancubus (scratched) | blood | [ m ]ore
 Boom! You are hit! You die!... Press <Enter>...
 You picked up a blood skull.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 13 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 12 of those were killed.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.

--------------------------------------------------------------
This was my first Cyberdemon killing character~ thankyou dodgemaster and BFG9000. Glad I hoarded cells ready for him this time; but this may have led to my later downfall, since, as a result, I probably hadn't packed enough 10mm for hell.

First level of Hell spawned me right in the middle of three barons and 4 demons. Used a phase device and it put me one space to the left. Raged, used another one to get away. Later, a switch did a lava flood of the level, and there went the only remaining homing phase device. (le sigh)

Also, very annoyingly, the last two levels didn't generate a SINGLE clip of 10mm. The 300 or so bullets I brought to Hell was soon depleted. Therefore, I was forced to pick up a Double Shotgun to survive. Sadly, I then met a Mancubus at the end of a corridor.

Nevertheless, Speedloader Pistols are a godsend; and when Gun Kata happened it was awesome. Never got to use the Grammaton, since I had just its starting clip of ammo at that point.

Just about getting used to cornershooting for the first time with this guy as well~ killed a few things this way.

In case you were interested, the guy who nuked himself went to the halls of carnage and didn't realise he needed a rocket launcher to escape. Lulz.

------------------------------------------------------------
Also, some Questions:
1. It seems that ITYTD provides less overall XP; so when you get the big bads you're not likely to be able to take it without great equipment luck. This intentional?

2. Recently, I've never done the final stage of the Arena entirely because of Arenamaster spawning on Chained Court later. How are you supposed to even think of taking out an Archvile at that stage, not to mention a stronger than usual one? Of course, it was due to this I couldn't do the Wall. Perhaps I should do the final round, skip Chained Court, and instead do the Wall? What do you guys do?

3. Does dodging work at all vs. Mancubuses? He seemed to hit me alot!

4. On HNTR difficulty, is there any way to do the start of Phobos Anomaly WITHOUT needing a Phase Device? I've tried the tip of ensuring I've got RUN MODE active, but even then the Lost Souls manage two spaces towards you and it doesn't look plausible to make a run for it. To be fair I've had a Double Shotty character with Shottyman survive there, barely, but its harsh on anyone else.

5. Does Intuition ONLY see at the edges of view, or does it also work on anything you can't see? i.e. can it be used to help you cornershoot?

EDIT: Also, Captcha even on EDITS!? I tend to see typos and do them alot, so that's really annoying...

[AlterAsc]

0.Use mortem tag for mortems instead of code tag.
1.No. http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Game_Settings
You have 1.4 exp multiplier on ITYTD.It's just there is low amount of enemies.If you wand more, play higher difficulty.
2.With rockets from arena, or with cornershooting, or just use chainsaw - with average 28 damage in berserk you need to score 4 hits on AM to kill it on ITYTD.Just 4 hits.If you want to move next to him fast, so he won't run away you can rocketjump.
3.From my experience(maybe i'm wrong) mancubi have strange aiming mechanism, so i'm sure they missed me when i was standing and hit me with central rocket when i was dodging with DM.After all, the answer is, yes it works, but there're 3 rockets so sometimes it's not possible.
4.Rocket jumping do wonders on all difficulties.It'll even kill lost souls.
5.It shows everything you don't see in radius of your normal vision(normally 8) +3.Obstacles doesn't matter.So it does help.

Added: and yeah - stock on 10mm, not cells or shells if you go with pistols.

[Klear]

Hello and welcome to the forums!

This looks like a pretty good run. You'll get the hang of it soon, I'm sure.

Also, GCB on a Gun-Kata run? Damn.. I want that so bad =)

I'll try to answer your questions. BTW, when posting your post mortem, use the [mortem] tags, they make it all colorful and easier to read.

In case you were interested, the guy who nuked himself went to the halls of carnage and didn't realise he needed a rocket launcher to escape. Lulz.

You don't need rocket launcher to pass Halls of Carnage. I assume you ended in front of the wall with three unopenable doors - these can be shot open with any weapon (even melee... well, not exactly shot, but they will open).

If you are playing Angel of Pacifism (surprisingly fun!), you are probably screwed, but it's possible to get the sergeants to open the door for you. Or you can use homing phase if you have it.

1. It seems that ITYTD provides less overall XP; so when you get the big bads you're not likely to be able to take it without great equipment luck. This intentional?

That is correct - lower the difficulty = less monsters = less XP. The "big bads" are not so tough if you get to know them. For example - if you have Dodgemaster, it's trivial to kill the cyberdemon without a scratch - just dodge until he shoots at you and missed, then shoot him with anything you have until he reloads and repeat. You just have to be careful not to get in front of a wall (and take splash damage) or allow him to melee you.

2. Recently, I've never done the final stage of the Arena entirely because of Arenamaster spawning on Chained Court later. How are you supposed to even think of taking out an Archvile at that stage, not to mention a stronger than usual one? Of course, it was due to this I couldn't do the Wall. Perhaps I should do the final round, skip Chained Court, and instead do the Wall? What do you guys do?

Yeah, the unchained court (as it is sometimes called) is pretty tough. I started to play regularly on UV recently and I still think twice before going in. When I don't feel up to it, I either skip the court, or skip arena if I play a melee build (you really don't want to skip a chainsaw plus 5 berserks when playing melee =)

Others may give you some tips on how to kill the Arena master.

3. Does dodging work at all vs. Mancubuses? He seemed to hit me alot!

You have in fact 100% chance to dodge mancubi even without dodgemaster or anything else. The problem is that you will often get hit by one of the missiles that are not aiming directly at you and/or burned alive by splash damage. It's best not to let them shoot at you at all (cornershoot! That's the answer to everything in DoomRL) or to have good fire protection.

4. On HNTR difficulty, is there any way to do the start of Phobos Anomaly WITHOUT needing a Phase Device? I've tried the tip of ensuring I've got RUN MODE active, but even then the Lost Souls manage two spaces towards you and it doesn't look plausible to make a run for it. To be fair I've had a Double Shotty character with Shottyman survive there, barely, but its harsh on anyone else.

The lost souls are currently a little overpowered. A phase device is great (unless it decides to kill you by phasing deeper into the swarm), rocket jumping is good too (rocket launcher's secondary fire mode). It's possible to be fast enough to outrun them taking only a little/no damage. Or you can play on UV/N! where they are replaced by slower demons, but that has its own problems =)

5. Does Intuition ONLY see at the edges of view, or does it also work on anything you can't see? i.e. can it be used to help you cornershoot?[/b]

With Int2 you can see even through walls and everything. Most of the people here will agree that it's one of the best traits out there (Int2 that is), though the really good players can apparently easily do without it.

EDIT: Also, Captcha even on EDITS!? I tend to see typos and do them alot, so that's really annoying...

My guess is it will go away after a few posts.

[Zecks]

1. While the exp multiplier is the highest (1.4x) ITYTD has very little enemies compared to other difficulties. At the same time however, you get double effects from powerups/medpacks, and bosses have way less health.

2. Rocket launcher, berserking, or just shotgunning really well. (as for the other enemies, lure them into the doors and then knock them back to lava to get rid of the corpses. Or use the said rocket launcher.)

4. I recommend rocket jumping. Granted, you need to do the arena for this unless you get lucky. Funnily enough I can't really say anything else because I haven't touched HMP and lower in a long time. (demons are easy to outrun)

5. The AoE of Intuition is your entire FoV radius + a few tiles outside, meaning you can see enemies behind walls if they are close enough.

[eharper256]

Sorry, changed it to mortem tags now; didn't realise that existed (not on the control panel?) so went with the old Crawl standby of Codetags.

Thanks for the quick answers.

As for difficulty I imagine I won't go far above HMP and maybe shoot for a couple of gold medals, since Roguelikes in general are hard enough for me, and I've never really cared that much for achievements so long as I feel I've personally done enough.

I'll probably check out an Intuition Scavenger build next and see how good it is. Sounds decent, anyway.

[thelaptop]

For the Anomaly, you should kick in RUN MODE only after the walls have lowered and the Lost Souls are released.  That will buy you some extra time to run through.  You won't get out of it unscathed, but you will have a good chance of not dying.  I've been doing the Anomaly without phase devices on HNTR, and can assure you that it is very doable unless you are going for a zero-damage run.

"Regular" ammunition needs to be stocked up in the early levels (10mm and shells).  At higher dlevs, you are more likely to see rockets and plasma, but 10mm and shells will be ridiculously rare.  I would usually err on the side of caution and amass around 6 to 7 stacks of ammunition just to stay safe.  With MGK, it becomes even more important because you can't really use the Ammochain ammo box -- that will reduce your DPS substantially.  I'm not sure if MGK works if you are only having a single pistol -- I've never really tried it because it is quite suicidal.

[Klear]

I'm not sure if MGK works if you are only having a single pistol -- I've never really tried it because it is quite suicidal.

This looks like a job for 2devs... but then he doesn't even need SoG to beat the game on AoHu with an unmodded pistol...

[AlterAsc]

For the Anomaly, you should kick in RUN MODE only after the walls have lowered

It may work on on HNTR, but that's not safe, because after walls lower if your speed is not high enough monsters can get a shot at you.And that can lead to you being knockbacked, swarmed and killed.
So ideally you should turn on running just before this step.

[thelaptop]

It may work on on HNTR, but that's not safe, because after walls lower if your speed is not high enough monsters can get a shot at you.

I usually run naked (or with Tactical Boots/Armour) through the first half, putting on the Red Armour once I'm through the door.  I guess I forgot to state that extra preparation to avoid being overloaded with stuff.  =P

[Kvaak]

The easiest way to escape the anomaly is to rocket jump. Running + HR might work too.

As for mancubi you shouldn't attempt to simply dodge them (even with MGK) since they shoot two or three rockets which means even if you "dodge" they might still hit you. They'll shoot at you again after that even if you hide behind a wall. Your best bet is to cornershoot. If you're desperate you could try getting in melee range, they still hit you for 9-11 but it's still less than their ranged attack, especially if you get hit by multiple projectiles. Also do note that their speed is 80% so they're notably slower than you unless you're encumbered by armor.

You might also note that the third level of SoG gives you an insane attack speed, believe me. Might want to take that right after DG, or even before it. Probably even more so on a DG scout than a technician since DG actually lowers your attack speed.

[Creepy]

1. It seems that ITYTD provides less overall XP; so when you get the big bads you're not likely to be able to take it without great equipment luck. This intentional?

ITYTD does seem like it has lower levels on average, but only because there's a lot fewer enemies; otherwise you get an EXP bonus. As for equipment luck, it's not required. I recently did a run where I killed everything with my bare fists, and fell only two enemies short of a perfect kill rate. This isn't because I'm good (Fuck no, I'm a terrible player), but because ITYTD is very easy.

2. Recently, I've never done the final stage of the Arena entirely because of Arenamaster spawning on Chained Court later. How are you supposed to even think of taking out an Archvile at that stage, not to mention a stronger than usual one? Of course, it was due to this I couldn't do the Wall. Perhaps I should do the final round, skip Chained Court, and instead do the Wall? What do you guys do?

The Arena Master is a tall order, but one that's doable. I like to start by heading right and killing the baddies behind the building (Where it's not possible for them to be revived if the AM comes charging), and then going back inside and slurping up both the berserk packs. While berserk, I can usually charge to the other end of the level and blast him apart before I lose berserk. 'Zerking gives you a major armor and speed boost, so you can ignore the formers unless you're caught up in a major crossfire, and just focus on taking down the Master before you're back to mere-mortal. You're still going to have to bring some health and armor to help, but it's certainly doable. After killing the Master you can take it low and slow, marching back toward the building and killing things one at a time. Or if you're out of gas, just grab the Staff and exit.

If you really don't want to deal with the Arena Master and aren't playing melee, there's no pressing reason to go into the Chained Court. Finish the Arena and skip the Court if it's bothering you. The chainsaw is nifty but not all that helpful unless you're putting some kind of focus on melee, and none of the other prizes are showstoppers.

3. Does dodging work at all vs. Mancubuses? He seemed to hit me alot!

Fatties fire sprays. If you're more than five-ish squares away, and there's nothing nearby for the fireballs to hit, you can usually dodge their fire and end up stepping between the shots. Closer than that and you can sidestep and still get nailed by the shots that would normally go by you. Better to retreat back from view and shoot at where they were standing; they don't move fast so you can usually hit them even if you can't see them, and they're not going far. Taking cover and cornershooting works too. Cornershoot solves everything... except Cyberdemons.

Of if you're absolutely crazy, start running and charge in. At point-blank, they're pussycats; they have decent melee damage but their speed is terrible. If you've got some close-quarters pain and can get close without being torn up, you can take them apart. It's risky but feels oh-so good.

4. On HNTR difficulty, is there any way to do the start of Phobos Anomaly WITHOUT needing a Phase Device? I've tried the tip of ensuring I've got RUN MODE active, but even then the Lost Souls manage two spaces towards you and it doesn't look plausible to make a run for it. To be fair I've had a Double Shotty character with Shottyman survive there, barely, but its harsh on anyone else.

Ugh, lost souls. I've heard if you have Hellrunner and remove your armor (To get rid of it's movement penalty) and run like hell you can get to the door without taking damage. Then you can deal with them without being surrounded. I usually just pack armor, health, and a lot of hate. Pistols are about the worst weapon to use on them, because they have a hefty resistance to bullets for some reason, but it's certainly doable. I remember doing it on a AoMr sharpshooter run (IE, with a single pistol), mostly because I had a billion health in reserve and the pumpkins were willing to explode half the herd for me. It'll suck though; phase would be my first choice, it's designed to get you away from bad situations like that.

5. Does Intuition ONLY see at the edges of view, or does it also work on anything you can't see? i.e. can it be used to help you cornershoot?

It works anywhere within range! I like using it to watch for things behind walls. I've stopped more than a few ambushes by "seeing" them around a corner. INT2 is fantastic at giving you an early warning buffer, it's invaluable until you learn the AI's habits. Still invaluable afterward; shooting bastards in the black is a wonderful thing.

[eharper256]

Cool stuff. Thanks for more concise answers.

Yeah, Intuition sounds good. I'll defininately give it a shot next run.

Glad I'm not the only one that finds the Lost Souls ambush at anomoly rather cruel, too.

Thinking about it; I should have known I was about to die- I just found the Grammaton. The RNG is never kind without something immensely punishing afterwards. :D

The problem I had with the Mancubus was partly from having nowhere to retreat or cornershoot from, not dodging his attack, and then being blown into lava for the finisher. I guess it was a grave tactical miscalculation too, but oh well.

[ZicherCZ]

I noticed you frequently on DCSS Tavern forum - so a warm welcome to you, fellow Crawler, and good luck to you :).

[skarczew]

You might also note that the third level of SoG gives you an insane attack speed, believe me. Might want to take that right after DG, or even before it. Probably even more so on a DG scout than a technician since DG actually lowers your attack speed.

DG is better to be taken straight after 2 SoG, unless you are Technician and you head for MSs.
Of course after DG take third SoG.

[Klear]

I've played a couple of AoMr games recently and went for SoG 3 before DG. It worked really well. I think somebody has done the math recently which shows that SoG3 has more DPS than SoG2 with DG.