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Author Topic: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!  (Read 17609 times)

Reef Blastbody

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2012, 16:27 »

Okay. Just been playing around with it a little bit and I can confirm that the Blaster retains its self-rejuvenating ammo regardless what you make it into. You cannot manually reload it under any circumstances.

Interestingly enough, when you go to your equipment screen and look at the blaster, it does claim to have a reload time of 1.0s, even though you can't reload it. So the wiki isn't wrong per se, just listing what the in game stats are. It's misleading though.

And I can definitely confirm what Alter mentioned earlier in this thread (and another one about modding) regarding damage and knockback. I did a Sharpshooter build because I wanted to see what a (P) Storm Bolter Combat Pistol (1d10)x2 would be like compared to a P3B2 Combat Pistol (3d5). With sharpshooter, the modded bolter should have been 20 damage each time, and the modded combat pistol would have been 15 damage each time.

The bolter would hit, cause severe knockback, and ultimately it took 6 shots to kill an arch-vile.

The modded combat pistol would hit and cause a little knockback, but it only took 4 shots to kill the arch-vile.

No contest. The knockback on the bolter was actually undesirable because it would push him out of my vision and let him start moving around and attacking me. The modded combat pistol would kill him before he had a chance to do anything.

This is definitely going to help with optimizing guides!
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Klear

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2012, 06:21 »

I'm not sure but some of the problems with this kind of knockback are scheduled to be fixed

Did you test the effectiveness of these pistols in a non-sharpshooter build? I tend to make storm bolter simply because it looks cool as hell.

Not that it shows in the game, but still...
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Reef Blastbody

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2012, 07:12 »

Not yet, Klear! I have a huge list of things to test, and Builds will be later. I was just curious about weapons/weapon damage.

I did make a storm bolter blaster though and it simply became a Storm Blaster, which I thought was pretty sweet.
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Klear

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2012, 07:38 »

I'm just pointing out that without sharpshooter, knockback becomes less of an issue. I don't mean to rush you, you're doing a great thing in testing all these things =)
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Reef Blastbody

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2012, 07:57 »

Oh, no worries. I'll have everything ready just in time to have to change it all when DoomRL updates versions, hahaha.

...without sharpshooter, knockback becomes less of an issue.

What do you mean? Like if the storm bolter damage wasn't maxed by Sharpshooter, it wouldn't be causing as much knockback? That's likely true, I just assumed Ss was the best place to try a storm bolter because you only need one maxed gun. It may be viable in a dualgunner build but you're gonna need a lot of mods to get two storm bolters! (Technically you don't need two but the OCD would kill me!)

I'll definitely add it on the list.

Speedloader pistol is currently next though. Also energy pistol testing. I rarely see people making energy pistols in their mortems; whether this is because power cells aren't as readily available, or if the ignoring half armor offered by energy shots simply isn't enough to outweigh the effects of getting 5 mods instead of an assembly + 1 mod.

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Klear

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2012, 08:12 »

With sharpshooter you are guaranteed to always inflict max damage, which means there is consistently the same amount of knockback (or lack therof). Without it, the damage inflicted is random, so at some point you'll be causing knockback only sometimes, say with one shot out of ten. That means that knockback ruining your shots is less of an issue and you can get away with more P mods and SoG levels without suffering lowered DPS.

When playing a non-sharpshooter build, I usually mod one pistol to become a bolter and the other one to get the energy pistol (or whatever it's called). What I end up with is decided by which mods I find first. It's probably not the most efficient way to play, but I like it.

Also, in the end I tend to finish these games with at least one unique pistol - I think rather than luck, it is because finding a unique pistol makes it more likely to finish the game.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 08:14 by Klear »
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AlterAsc

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2012, 11:43 »

Usually enemies have 0-2 armor, so benefit from changing to plasma is 0-1 dmg.So generally P2 pistol would be  the same in terms of damage to energy pistol.And you have spare T-mod and can mod your pistol further.
There're revs and lost souls though.
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Klear

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2012, 11:54 »

There're revs and lost souls though.

This. Also I like to be able to utilize more ammo types for some reason.
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Reef Blastbody

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2012, 13:56 »

This. Also I like to be able to utilize more ammo types for some reason.

I do not. Hahaha. That's one of my biggest problems mid to end game; an inventory full of shotgun shells, 10 mm ammo, power cells, and rockets. They take up too much room and I start weighing what needs to be dropped or not when I start finding mods, medkits, etc.

It's my own fault for being a pack rat.

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Sirdec

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2012, 23:51 »

It's been a while since i played a dualgunner but... Let's say you got a *weak* pistol and a stronger one, for whatever reason (unfinished modding commonly).

Is it better having the strong one in prep slot or the weak one, or does it not matter for knockback issues. Worth testing imo.
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Klear

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2012, 02:05 »

It's been a while since i played a dualgunner but... Let's say you got a *weak* pistol and a stronger one, for whatever reason (unfinished modding commonly).

Is it better having the strong one in prep slot or the weak one, or does it not matter for knockback issues. Worth testing imo.

I always keep the one with smaller clip as my primary, but what you say could be useful in some instances.
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Q2ZOv

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2012, 06:42 »

It's been a while since i played a dualgunner but... Let's say you got a *weak* pistol and a stronger one, for whatever reason (unfinished modding commonly).

Is it better having the strong one in prep slot or the weak one, or does it not matter for knockback issues. Worth testing imo.

As far as i know there is no differences and it doesn't have influence on knockback.

add: immediately after posting I was pointed to the fact that there is a difference: primary pistol shoots first. So it does have influence on knockback. Didn't think about that before posting.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 06:51 by Q2ZOv »
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Reef Blastbody

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2012, 09:24 »

I'll do Weak/Strong pistol testing in main and off hands next before I move on!
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Solarn

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2012, 08:52 »

Storm bolter - dunno/
Storm Bolter is amazing if you're going for MSs. Even with a regular pistol as base, you'll be one-shotting most monsters and if you manage to apply it to a combat pistol or blaster, it just melts everything. If you're really fond of overkill, wait with completing the assembly until you have WK2 and then apply an additional power mod.

As for the knockback issue, just don't stand in a position where the knockback could push the enemy out of your line of fire. Ideally, you would want them in front of a wall or in a straight line ahead of you.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:56 by Solarn »
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Klear

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Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2012, 09:07 »

As for the knockback issue, just don't stand in a position where the knockback could push the enemy out of your line of fire. Ideally, you would want them in front of a wall or in a straight line ahead of you.

Well, you will often want to kill enemies at the edge of your vision. Knockback can push them out of sight, which means the next shot has a 50% chance of missing them completely, in addition to normal hit chance (though that should be pretty good with EE3).
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