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Author Topic: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO  (Read 26259 times)

yaflhdztioxo

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2012, 20:05 »

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

I for one find the IWBTG series fun and relaxing.  I am alone in that.  None of my friends nor the very small selection of nerdy relatives I have are willing to get past the first screen.  Only one is even wiling to watch me dazzle and amaze as I snake past well memorized traps and tricks.  The rest break down sobbing or launch into profanity.  One couldn't even get past the map screen.  It was brutal.

Yep, Trial + Error gameplay is not for everyone.  But it is for me.
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AlterAsc

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2012, 01:11 »

There was a hint already: DS N! btw, don't forget to conquer some levels... If you know what I mean.
Yeah, i'm pretty sure i know what you mean. Conqueror is fine, i did it on N!, but another limitation is plain impossible for me.
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skarczew

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2012, 05:32 »

And I don't mind being spoiled if I can't figure something out without resorting to trial-and-error since I don't find T&E compelling game design.
Well... I remember time playing AoC on UV. It took unusual amount of tries to be successful - dozens of dozens, while I usually need just few.
I also remember that lots of my wins were done using just average weapons (e.g. basic pistols on AoMr), and I screwed many wins while having really good equipment.
Some combinations of difficulty are more challenging than the others. And for other reason AoP is marked as BLADE.

I never found Railgun or DS to mention and I can live with that. Why? Because it is DoomRL, and not BerserkRL :P . It is just a wicked special thing in a world where it should not even exist :) .

This game is one of the few that got its difficulty set really high - and is still attractive to play (because it is balanced quite well). I don't have to achieve everything, simply because I am not on a skill level needed for that. One day I will get on it, though :) .
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Klear

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2012, 06:01 »

This game is one of the few that got its difficulty set really high - and is still attractive to play (because it is balanced quite well). I don't have to achieve everything, simply because I am not on a skill level needed for that. One day I will get on it, though :) .
Well, the difficulty potential is high. What I like about it is that if you progress from bronze badges onward, there is a nice steady learning curve with the game being challenging while not frustrating most of the time. Except maybe the transition from UV to N!. I'm at that point now and it's definitely the longest I've been without gaining any new badges. On the other hand, by this time I'm hooked so much on the game that I don't mind it at all =)
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skarczew

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2012, 15:41 »

Well, the difficulty potential is high. What I like about it is that if you progress from bronze badges onward, there is a nice steady learning curve with the game being challenging while not frustrating most of the time. Except maybe the transition from UV to N!. I'm at that point now and it's definitely the longest I've been without gaining any new badges. On the other hand, by this time I'm hooked so much on the game that I don't mind it at all =)
For me there is almost no difference between UV and N! (as long as you use doors and liquids). Moreover, in some aspects N! is easier than UV, which is ridiculous IMHO and should be changed.
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Tormuse

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2012, 22:24 »

For me there is almost no difference between UV and N! (as long as you use doors and liquids). Moreover, in some aspects N! is easier than UV, which is ridiculous IMHO and should be changed.

Personally, I find N! considerably more difficult than UV.  A vast majority of my games are played at N! difficulty, and I find that on the odd occasion I play UV, it's a lot more relaxing, not having to worry if any of the monsters are going to get back up and being able to re-enter explored territory, confident that there's no danger.  And yeah, if you use doors and liquids, etc. to get rid of bodies, it's a big help for N!, but those aren't always available, and sometimes the layout of the terrain doesn't make it easy to lure the larger monsters into body disposal positions.  Say what you will about the difficulty, but I find it way, *way* easier to win at UV than N!

It doesn't help that the game's formula for deciding when monster's revive is pretty wonky.  Sometimes, they get back up in the same second you killed them, so you can't even tell that they died, and sometimes, you can go for several minutes, with no revival happening at all.  Also, sometimes, large groups revive simultaneously, regardless of what order you killed them in.  (It's worst in the Mortuary, when you can get like 50 or more reviving at the same time and you're suddenly, instantly surrounded by some of the meanest monsters in the game)  If anything "should" be changed about Nightmare, I'd say it's the revival formula, but I imagine that it would be a big headache for the designers to rewrite that.  I could imagine a system where each corpse has its own timer to base its revival on, but then again, that might make the reviving a little *too* predictable and make things ridiculously easy.  I don't know if there's an ideal solution for this, but it would be nice if I could at least trust the Bruiser or Shambler to stay down long enough for the two seconds it takes me to pull out my Rocket Launcher to finish them off.
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Cheesybox

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2012, 23:50 »

Ok, see this is what I'm talking about. Phobos Anomaly on AoP. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
Wear no armor, souls eat me up.
Wear red armor, I'm too slow to out run them.
I don't get how there's any other strategy other than moving diagonally and running and popping a kit when I get tired to keep running, and that doesn't work.
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ZicherCZ

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2012, 00:41 »

Ok, see this is what I'm talking about. Phobos Anomaly on AoP. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
Wear no armor, souls eat me up.
Wear red armor, I'm too slow to out run them.
I don't get how there's any other strategy other than moving diagonally and running and popping a kit when I get tired to keep running, and that doesn't work.

A lucky phase works wonders there. Sure, it's not reliable by any means, but the chance of getting past the ambush room is still pretty high. Homing phase is of course even better.
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AlterAsc

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2012, 02:16 »

There's a completely easy and absolutely guaranteed way to pass anomaly.
Rocket
Jump.
helps all on all difficulties!

Oh, btw i remember the talk about making N! anomaly easier. Is it going to happen in 0997?
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Klear

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2012, 02:28 »

A lucky phase works wonders there. Sure, it's not reliable by any means, but the chance of getting past the ambush room is still pretty high. Homing phase is of course even better.

There are no stair in the anomaly, so a homing phase behaves the same as normal phase.

In any case, rocket jump is a surefire way to make it. Another option is a speedy build - with some tactical boots you can outrun the worst of them.
And of course, the lost souls are there only on HNTR, harder difficulties make it actually easier, since the lost souls are replaced by demons. The Nightmare demons on n! are a completely different story though. They always eat me =(

I've won plenty of UV games, but my n! games almost always end with the anomaly. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it nerfed a bit. Right now I'm doing Ao100 on nightmare! just to bypass the anomaly. I'm hoping that by the time I make it, I will have enough experience with corpse disposal to brave Hell's Arena and later figure out a way to get through the anomaly, but so far I'm stuck.
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ZicherCZ

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2012, 04:22 »

Does rocketjump work on AoPc, with no weapons usage restriction? That's what Cheesybox is looking for, IIRC.
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AlterAsc

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2012, 04:35 »

Oh. AoPc. AoP is Angel of Purity.
No, you can't rocket jump on AoPc. HR2, no reason not to take it.
@Klear
I'd say that passing HA on N! is 25% of successfuly completing N! game (unless AoB) because additional exp and RL makes really big difference. That difference is why i struggled so much with Ao100 where you don't get help from special levels.
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Klear

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2012, 05:07 »

I'd say that passing HA on N! is 25% of successfuly completing N! game (unless AoB) because additional exp and RL makes really big difference. That difference is why i struggled so much with Ao100 where you don't get help from special levels.

Yeah, I figured that completing Hell's Arena is the boost that I need to finish a game on N!. I focus on Ao100 now to hone my corpse disposal skills (and indeed I feel I am probably ready to tackle the Arena by now). For some reason, I don't find the early game of Ao100 so difficult at this point. I had certainly more success with it than with passing the anomaly (which I managed only twice, IIRC, with the help of invulnerability). These days I mostly die 1) very early, by some stupid mistake or very bad luck, 2) in an arachnotron cave just before getting my build together, 3) on level 40+ through boredom. I'm still a long way from finishing an Ao100 n! game, but I'll keep on trying until I make it with the hope that standard n! game will be a relative walk in the park for me afterwards.

As for the Anomaly on AoPc, no idea then what's the best strategy, though I don't remember ever having too much trouble with it. I should give it a try again to remember. It's probably all about running like hell, like the rest of the challenge.

BTW, another useful tip for AoPc - it is often advantageous to move in the melee range of some enemies, since melee damage usually hurts a lot less.
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Q2ZOv

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2012, 06:11 »

On AoPc you can usually easily pass anomaly because of berserk packs you got in CC. Souls on hntr can be a problem but I think that with two large globes and medkits at the start of anomaly they shouldn't be really dangerous.
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Tormuse

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Re: This game's difficulty is a bit off in places IMO
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2012, 10:07 »

I just did a HNTR AoPc speedrun and I found the Lost Souls at the anomaly easy to deal with; I just stood still for a couple seconds and let the Cacodemons hit me.  Their splash damage finished off all the Souls with just a couple of hits, and then I went through the door and closed it behind me so the Cacodemons couldn't follow.  I found the Bruiser Brothers trickier to get past in comparison, but Dodgemaster was a big help there.

And on a side note, I was four seconds shy of getting Pacifism Gold.  *sigh*


EDIT:

I for one find the IWBTG series fun and relaxing.  I am alone in that.  None of my friends nor the very small selection of nerdy relatives I have are willing to get past the first screen.  Only one is even wiling to watch me dazzle and amaze as I snake past well memorized traps and tricks.  The rest break down sobbing or launch into profanity.  One couldn't even get past the map screen.  It was brutal.

Just thought I'd let you know that I tried it out the other day and got as far as the third screen.  (at impossible difficulty)  Maybe I'll try it again some day.  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 10:14 by Tormuse »
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