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[Adral]

With 0.9.8.5, it seems to be a generalized opinion that Intuition is the best trait out there, and that once you have it the game is much easier due to your "1337 sn1pin' skillz", and Cateye, the cheaty trait from previous version, doesn't do anything good. The only downside people find for Intuition is that it uses 5 traits to get it at full power... but I still don't think that is balanced, since EE is a nice trait and the other Intuition levels still do something useful, like letting you know what a certain switch do (which can be a lifesaver). Moreover, if going IDDQD costed 7 traits, I still wouldn't think of that as "balanced":P.

I'd like to do a proposal to correct that issue. What I was thinking is make the to-hit chance diminish outside LOS quickly with distance. That way, if you want to snipe, you are better off with Cateye, as you see farther and your LOS would be greater, but if what you want to know is what's in this level, you get Intuition, but not as a cheap

- OMG I SENSE THERE MUST BE A MONSTER 3 MILES ON THAT DIRECTION

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, he's SENSING a monster, not seeing it.

* DoomGuy shoots his Plasma Rifle
- LAWL I KILLED THAT ARACHNOTRON NOT EVEN KNOWING IT WAS ONE AND NOT EVEN FAILING A SINGLE SHOT I R 1337 :D

Perhaps, to make Intuition regain part of its potential, it should be reduced to a 2-level trait that did the same that does now. Perhaps even a 1 level trait.

Aside from balance, come on... if the monster is outside Line Of Sight, how can you shoot it with the same precision as if he is point blank? It just strikes me as ridiculous. Cateye makes more sense, since you are actually seeing the monster. You see farther -> you can aim better farther.

I think it's a good solution, what do you think?

[Blade]

CatEye will be much useless when monsters will react if you are attacking them out of their LoS. And i think that new AI will be added to next version. So maybe make CatEye increase LoS by 2 points per level(not sure about it)?
Anyway, diminishing of hit chance out of LoS is quite not bad idea. Not VERY fast, so you will still have a chance to hit monster 1 or 2 squares out of your LoS, but fast enough to make this chance not so big.

[Adral]

Anyway, diminishing of hit chance out of LoS is quite not bad idea. Not VERY fast, so you will still have a chance to hit monster 1 or 2 squares out of your LoS, but fast enough to make this chance not so big.

Exactly, Blade, that is what I was thinking.

It makes sense that if it's just outside your LOS (ie. by 1 or 2 squares, as you mentioned) you can still shot by "hearing" or whatever, but it's ridiculous hitting someone who is 30000 miles away with the same chance.

[Valkeera]

I agree that one way how to make Cateye more useful would be to increase the LOS considerably. Other ways of improvement would be to move it back to basic traits, or allow it to spot barrels and items in a certain radius larger than LOS.

BTW, perhaps the Intuition should be limited to a certain radius as well, instead of the entire level.

[Adral]

I agree that one way how to make Cateye more useful would be to increase the LOS considerably. Other ways of improvement would be to move it back to basic traits, or allow it to spot barrels and items in a certain radius larger than LOS.

I agree, moving it back to basic trait might do the trick.

But maybe better than what you suggested might be improving the LOS like it does now but being able to spot monsters (as they are bigger than items lying on the ground) 1 square off you current LOS, where you would still hit almost with the same to-hit as inside LOS.

I'll try to explain myself a bit better, just in case: 1 level of Cateye grants you 1 LOS (so you see more of the level) and also 1 square just outside LOS you spot monsters. The explanation might be that you just barely see the silhouette of the monster (as your sight has improved), but not the details on the ground.

BTW, perhaps the Intuition should be limited to a certain radius as well, instead of the entire level.

In my opinion it's much better to mess with the to-hit chance. That way Intuition is good for what it is: knowing what's on the level. And Cateye would be good for another thing too: being able to shoot better farther.

Also, the game world would be more consistent, I think.

[Ugm]

I agree with Adral - 1 square outside LoS seems reasonable.

My propositions for blunting Intuition:

- modification of what Valkeera mentioned - sensing within a certain radius. It would still help to sense if there are monsters behind the wall or insinde closed room while not letting player to snipe them from 1000 miles

- increasing (with a distance) chance to missense the position of a monster - you could know that there are some enemies at the other side of a level, but their position wouldn't be 100% accurate. Targetting red dots would be a waste of ammo, but rockets could still make it. It's like in "real" - you don't have to know where some terrorists/monsters/in-laws are when shooting a rocket into a crowded room. You just have to know, that they ARE there. Somewhere.

[Blade]

I'm totally against making Ituition work in some radius. You can even without Intuition fire rockets on sound, no one can forbid you to do it. And it is fair. You will miss monsters(rockets will loose chance to hit out of LoS as other weapons), so you will hit only wall, or usefull items. You suppose all monsters will wander around walls so you can kill them by blast? Yes, one rocket blast will inflict monsters some damage. But second won't because:
1)Wall will be destroyed.
2)Even if it will still exist after explosion(outer level wall, for example), monsters would be knocked out of this wall.

One more argument: Inuition without big hit chance out of LoS won't be sniper skill anymore, it will become skill only for surviving. So i don't see, why we need to decrease it's usefullness anymore.

Also i think that you still must have very-very little chance to hit monster that is far away( 1%, for example(if you think that it is big, imagine that you fire 100 rockets and only one hits target)). I must not be 0.

[Adral]

One more argument: Inuition without big hit chance out of LoS won't be sniper skill anymore, it will become skill only for surviving. So i don't see, why we need to decrease it's usefullness anymore.

QFT

It's about balancing the skill, not rendering it useless.

Edit to reply to Blade's edit:
Yes, what I meant is that if you hit someone who is very far and you are not seeing is just by pure luck. So if you want to take a chance to see if you hit, fine. But not almost always hit. In this situation [Harry the Dirtty]you have to ask yourself one question, do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?[/Harry the Dirty]

So hit chance should never drop below 1-5% or so.

[TFoN]

For the most part, I agree.

5% is the classic limitation and I suggest sticking to it. If you want to fire 20 rockets at a dot, you've earned a hit :)

Limiting Intuition to a certain radius is only a good idea if we also get a counter for the monsters on the level with it, but even then, Intuition(3) should have a range considerably larger than the LOS.
That's, of course, considering the new AI'll make Intuition less powerful in the first place, so for missense, absolutely NO. As said, you anyway get to hear things. Giving a dot but having that dot confuse you is not a perk, it's an unnerving disadvantage (one moment it's on one side of the wall, the next on the other, but which is real?). You almost might as well only give a counter (which, BTW, I suggest is added on Intuition(2), just like leversense has a "preview" before coming into full effect).