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Author Topic: Tech mods and armor, small change?  (Read 10428 times)

Fanta Hege

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Tech mods and armor, small change?
« on: February 27, 2013, 16:28 »

How about instead of increasing knockback, make it increase the resistance values when used on armor.
Because face it, you have pretty much no reasonings to use tech mod on armor unless you got absolutely nothing else to use it on or are trying to make an assembly. Knockback resistance just isn't that good for non meelees.
Resistance increase could be very worthwhile investment to consider for armors.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 17:57 »

I actually kinda like this idea, especially if it would only increase physical resistances (melee, shrapnel, pistols).
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2013, 01:59 »

And... increases some resistances and decreases others, depending on the type of the armor? So players will have to try to figure out, like assemblies? ;)
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MaiZure

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 02:28 »

And... increases some resistances and decreases others, depending on the type of the armor? So players will have to try to figure out, like assemblies? ;)

I vote Nay to this - I think gameplay systems should be more simplified than they are now
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 02:47 »

More "coffee-break"? Maybe... but this is not as critical as assemblies are, so one neither get much from a good upgrade nor suffer much from mistake. I think it's rather "space for exploration" than "another list to learn".
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 05:13 »

I think giving resistances depending on armor types is a good idea.
Another would be to allow any mod use for resistances improvement, as another way of improving armors. e.g. bulk could add 100% durability or 25% "low" resists (melee/shrap/bullets). P could give +2 armor or 25%.. maybe acid ? T and A would improve plasma/fire.
What I don't like in this idea is that it makes mod use "more complicated", but what seems good is that I would use something else than always A and P. Carrying multiple armors would become quite interesting.

Quote
I vote Nay to this - I think gameplay systems should be more simplified than they are now
Same opinion here.
I love roguelikes for their difficulty, but I *hate* hidden knowledge. Some call information spoilers, but this just appears to be the game rules to me.

Anyway, even after reading wikis or whatever, you'll still need to experiment, since there is a huge gap between theory and practice. But not having enough in-game informations (like monsters resistances, or some precise items effects, e.g. forshockwave pack) is really frustrating, especially when discovering the game.
It's the same problem with unintuitive cornershooting... if I didn't watch a video of gameHunter, I would'nt have figured that monster's line of sight are intentionally bad, and would have stopped playing, because "HMP is too hard"...
As long as roguelikes are so complicated, they will remain a niche for geeks... It's too bad millions of people play WoW but only a few know doomRL :(
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 05:15 by Evilpotatoe »
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 05:27 »

I like to have basic information (barely enough to win) revealed and advanced hidden, just to have a space to explore. I allowed myself to read Wiki only when I've found a nuclear plasmagun and then discovered the burst cannon assembly on it. And placed the Power mod. And have the Burst Nuclear Plasma Gun (P1).
And only then I thought I know the Tao and can just read the details.

Basic: Tech improves the main purpose of an armor.
Advanced: You have +1 main protection on Red, +40% to Melee and Shrapnel on Bulletproof, and you have twice as much repair effect from Armor Shards on the cursed Cybernetic Armor. At least, you know what to do and what to avoid if you have the Tech Pack and a new armor.
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 05:30 »

Actually, it's good to have the same principle in some other details. For example, we all know Lost Soul screams on first levels mean there are well-guarded good things nearby. But we never know which ones and do they worth the fight.
It's totally random, not determinated-but-hidden. But the effect is close.

Also, I love the idea itself. Maybe it's even better than change Gatling assembly from Ch+BB to Ch+TT, as I suggested. But may be Tech will be TOO useful, that's why I suggest to place some difficulties on this way.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 05:33 by Nick »
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tylor

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2013, 10:02 »

Resist bonus could be nice, but it's just so many of types.
What about bonus to dodge?
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skarczew

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 09:08 »

Resist bonus could be nice, but it's just so many of types.
What about bonus to dodge?
IMO:
Tech mods should add technical stuff (resistances, etc).
Agi mods should add dodge stuff.
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Thexare

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 21:20 »

I vote Nay to this - I think gameplay systems should be more simplified than they are now
How's this for a simple mix of ideas: Tech mods increase resistances already present, and "related" resistances -these would be grouped into Melee/Bullet/Shrapnel, and Fire/Plasma. Physical or Energy, basically, should be easy enough to remember. So on Blue or Red, you'd get a Fire and Plasma resistance boost, while Green would boost Melee, Bullet, and Shrapnel resistance.

The only time this formula wouldn't work is Onyx Armor, I'll let someone else figure out what to do there.
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skarczew

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 05:55 »

How's this for a simple mix of ideas: Tech mods increase resistances already present, and "related" resistances -these would be grouped into Melee/Bullet/Shrapnel, and Fire/Plasma. Physical or Energy, basically, should be easy enough to remember. So on Blue or Red, you'd get a Fire and Plasma resistance boost, while Green would boost Melee, Bullet, and Shrapnel resistance.

The only time this formula wouldn't work is Onyx Armor, I'll let someone else figure out what to do there.
Blue - increase only plasma res (and protection)
Red - increase only fire res (and maybe protection)
Green - increase melee, bullet, shrapnel res and protection (needed, as it is pretty weak when compared to others)

This way even a green armor could be useful in a late game (and I hope Spidey will get SuperChaingun - with bullet-type damage - in future, like in the original Doom).
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Deathwind

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2013, 21:36 »

Mind if I make another suggestion? Make T-mods decrease the rate armor takes damage?
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AlterAsc

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2013, 06:31 »

Than it would be basically a duplicate of bulk mod - making armor last longer.
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 10:53 »

...and Environment Suit should give you 100% Acid resistance, totally saving your armor and body from that howling goats for this short time it lasts :)
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lmaoboat

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2013, 13:16 »

I think giving resistances depending on armor types is a good idea.
Another would be to allow any mod use for resistances improvement, as another way of improving armors. e.g. bulk could add 100% durability or 25% "low" resists (melee/shrap/bullets). P could give +2 armor or 25%.. maybe acid ? T and A would improve plasma/fire.
What I don't like in this idea is that it makes mod use "more complicated", but what seems good is that I would use something else than always A and P. Carrying multiple armors would become quite interesting.
Same opinion here.
I love roguelikes for their difficulty, but I *hate* hidden knowledge. Some call information spoilers, but this just appears to be the game rules to me.

Anyway, even after reading wikis or whatever, you'll still need to experiment, since there is a huge gap between theory and practice. But not having enough in-game informations (like monsters resistances, or some precise items effects, e.g. forshockwave pack) is really frustrating, especially when discovering the game.
It's the same problem with unintuitive cornershooting... if I didn't watch a video of gameHunter, I would'nt have figured that monster's line of sight are intentionally bad, and would have stopped playing, because "HMP is too hard"...
As long as roguelikes are so complicated, they will remain a niche for geeks... It's too bad millions of people play WoW but only a few know doomRL :(
I'm pretty much the same way, I'm constantly looking at wikis. The only exception is SotS: The Pit, where learning new recipes is one of the core mechanics of the game.
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zenfur

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2013, 17:09 »

Not 100% related, but someone made a point, that carrying more varied armors would be more interesting. It gave me idea of introducing some variance in armor's stats. There could be random drawbacks/qualities for common armors, like up to +50% of it's actual resistances for price of getting max 75% durabilty, increasing knockback, making you vunerable in other part of resistances, slowing you down by up to 10% or for getting -1 to it's def (of course all I mentioned could be took as the opposite, so +1 flat arm, up to +10% speed, 125% durability etc.). Some could have also uncommon resits on such armor, like up to 10% of acid resist (it wouldn't hurt, as it's rare and it would affect only barons of hell).

I share opinion, that tech are the least appealing mods and could be tweaked a bit.
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2013, 01:33 »

Adding randomness would make the game more complex, and probably not change depth much. I don't think we want to grab every armor to check it's stats.
But maybe, just improving resistances of weak armors would make them more useful.

Why not improve green armor to 30% or 40%, so that it really gives a good protection against weak opponents ? Same for blue : 40% plasma resistance would make a significant difference against commandos and arachnotrons. Only shamblers wouldn't agree, but I think it's a detail.
Also, medical armors could be made more useful. Healing under 25% of health is a joke... make it 50%

Anyway, red armor would still be the most protecting one, and fire resistance is most of the time more useful that the other ones...
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Klear

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2013, 01:45 »

I don't think the green and blue armours are supposed to offer good protection. I agree about the medical armour though. It's not so good at this point.
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grommile

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2013, 13:31 »

I wasn't aware the medical armor was ever good :)
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2013, 13:57 »

Maybe give two inventory slots? Yeah, kinda pockets or whatever.
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Sambojin

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2013, 17:26 »

We've already got the maximum amount of inventory slots without a font change. DoomRL tends to keep all info of any particular type all on one screen, which I quite like (plus, we got an extra inventory slot around 0.9.9.5).

Whilst this idea would cross-over with bulk mods, I wonder if tech mods should make armour easier to repair? +15-25% for each armour shard used? Keep the knockback prevention, but it'd make it a lot easier to keep that armour around. It wouldn't have the damage-soak (or protection-keeping) abilities of a bulk-modded armour, but it would be a lot easier to get it back into perfect condition. Not too powerful, but very handy when armour shards are in short supply, and it would help keep heavily modded armour around longer. Just an idea anyway.
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2013, 14:30 »

Pockets can be in the equipment screen. And allow to put ammo only. And don't work as 3 and 4 prepared slots because it's too much. Just two ammo slots.

But I like the idea with armor bonus X 2.
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dougjoe2e

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2013, 17:45 »

How about a new exotic (or unique?) mod pack that allows you to choose one resistance type to improve on your armor?
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2013, 02:06 »

Firestorm on an armor.
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Sambojin

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2013, 17:40 »

Firestorm and sniper packs on armours does bring up the question of what on earth an onyx pack would do on a weapon though.

I guess there's no reason that they can't do "something", it just might be a fairly unintuitive something. Also, a fairly off-topic something in any case.
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Nick

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2013, 14:07 »

Allow +2 more upgrades for this weapon.
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Bloax

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2013, 10:20 »

How about +5% resistance for non-intrinsic (like plasma for blue - and fire for red, you get it) and +10% (up to 50%?) for intrinsic armor resistances?

It wouldn't be great (in fact it might be more worthwhile to have it at +10/15%), but it sure would be better than some knockback resistance!
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emulord

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Re: Tech mods and armor, small change?
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2013, 12:55 »

A more interesting set of armor mods would be
Power, agility, Nano, Bulk, Onyx are the same
Sniper gives 20% (Max 75%) bullet resistance
Firestorm gives 20% (Max 75%) fire resistance
Tech gives 15% (Max 75%) plasma resistance

Acid, melee, and shrapnel don't have ways to improve resistance unless you want to double up and make
Sniper give 10% both bullet/shrapnel
Firestorm gives 10% both fire/melee
Tech gives 10% both plasma/acid


Maybe bulk can also slightly increase knockback resistance since it decreases movespeed now.


Onyx weapons have a higher chance to gib corpses? Thats the only effect I can think of for those haha
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