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Author Topic: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring  (Read 3658 times)

LuckyDee

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Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« on: March 24, 2013, 23:37 »

Of all the standard concepts that DoomRL has to offer I've understood at least the basics, except one: chainfiring. I understand the thrill of unleasing an insane amount of bullets into a demon that just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the whole alternate fire function usually goes right by me. I hardly ever play chain builds, probably for just this reason.

What are preferred tactics? Preferred weapons? Special mentions such as the Mortuary (ick!)?
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Ashannar

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 23:58 »

I don't understand chain firing at all.

It's only good against a single opponent if you expect to kill it in 4 or more volleys. And I've never even been in a situation before where using the 'sweeping' functionality was a good idea. I don't even know how it works. It seems like you'd have to expose yourself way too much to use it.
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Deathwind

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 00:07 »

Do you mean rapid-fire or "chain-fire"?

The wiki explains how the chain-fire works rather well but I've never really used it much. There is only one major reason to use it, Entrenchment.
http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Alternate_fire#Chain_fire

Rapid-fire tactics are a bit harder to explain, what do you need to know about it?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 00:10 by Deathwind »
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LuckyDee

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 00:11 »

Rapid-fire tactics are a bit harder to explain, what do you need to know about it?

I read the chain fire bit before, and understand how it works, but like Ashannar I'm clueless as to how to effectively use this. Anything you might care to add would be great, thanks.

There is only one major reason to use it, Entrenchment.

Understood. Though opinions that this is the only reason might differ.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 00:14 by LuckyDee »
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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 00:29 »

well, I try chainfiring in 9.9.7. Now I understand what is it and how it works (game say about initial-normal-full chain).

Until you (do not move) and (have ammo loaded in your chain weapon) and (have enemies in LOS) you can chainfire from rapid weapon, chain by chain, start from "initial" (2/3 shots in volley) then "normal" (standard volley) then "full" (3/2 shots per volley). If first target die, you can continue to another, with "full" chainfire if you pump to that stage, till you have ammo loaded. Past reloading chainfiring starts from "initial" again.

If we are hit by explosive projectile then corresponding knockback stops chain rampage (counts as move).

so, the bigger clip we are have, the more efficient chainfire we can do. Size of 40 in standart plasmagun/chaingun not enough at all. Minigun and nano-ammo assemble or MAc+nuclear plasma are recommended, or B3-modded plasmagun. Well, B-modded gatling is minimum.
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AlterAsc

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 00:37 »

It's rarely useful, that much is true.
Aside from MEn, the only reason to chain-fire is if you have nowhere to go and you can kill your enemies in no less than 4 standard volleys.
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Thomas

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 01:00 »

Chainfiring is also good to save ammo by killing formers with 1-2 less bullets - if you don't have Ammochain anyway.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 01:06 »

Ok, so first impressions are that chain-firing doesn't make or break a rapid fire build. The obvious advantages of the 3 master traits aside, what makes these builds so effective then? Blind DPS?
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 01:56 »

Overall, rapid fire weapons have an excellent DPS. The only drawback of a plasma gun is that you can't store enough ammo.

-MAc solves this problem. With the nuclear plasma rifle from the spider's lair (hopefully, now removed), you'd never be short of ammo. unlimited ammo (and moddable) plasma gun is ridiculously overpowered. I guess it will be (just a little) harder now. (I think this still needs some nerf)
-MCe can lead to great damages too, but it's not really a "rapid fire" mastery, it's a "sniper" tool. Killing monsters before they get a chance to see you is always great, and works not only with rapid fire, but also with guns or RL (and even nuclear BFGs :p).   from my point of view, MAc is more powerful, but MCe is the lamest mastery
-I didn't even try MEn yet... looks useless to me since it doesn't work when not chain-firing. Numbers seem good, but too constraining, imo.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 01:59 by Evilpotatoe »
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AlterAsc

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 04:44 »

MAc is perfectly fine without nuclear plasma. It's just a small bonus.
Having 2-3 stacks of cells is no big deal.

And yeah: rapid-fire is all about killing things before they even shoot.
MEn problem is that while you may be okay with standing like a badass and chainfiring, your armor is not. And it scales bad with difficulty.While  on HTNR/HMP you can be okay with standing toe-to-toe to everyone, on UV/N! you're just losing ton of hp and ammo.

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Trar

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 06:28 »

I just prefer finding a really good shotgun and getting Shottyman. It's basically how you do AoSh: strafe and keep spamming in the general direction of your enemy. That and corner camping.
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AlterAsc

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 06:38 »

Fail to see the connection between your post and chainfiring.
If you mean that you prefer shotguns over rapidfire weapons then, well, that's your choice, however in the late game rapid-fire weapons are vastly superior to shotguns.
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thelaptop

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 07:15 »

MAD.

Armour?  What armour?

But that said, Chainfire is designed to lay waste to things before they can even hit you.  Minigun works nicely due to its large magazine size, but like all rapid-fire weapons, suffers tremendously from lack of accuracy.

The rule of thumb to effectively use rapid fire weapons (especially in chainfire mode) is to slap one A-mod to a chaingun, and 2xA-mod to a plasma rifle, with EE replacing one A-mod.  This also means that MCe, in spite of its use as a general purpose Master, is actually quite useful for rapid-fire builds.  If you are using MSs but are not bound by weapons restrictions, this also means that you can carry an additional Plasma Rifle/BFG to go after those things that are resistant to bullets (plasma burns a little more strongly through armour), since 3xEE means you don't really miss any shots with the plasma rifle.
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Trar

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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 09:49 »

I just find myself using shotguns and going for shotgun builds more than I do chaingun builds. That could change, but shotguns will always remain viable in my eyes.
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Re: Ratatatata: The Joy of Chainfiring
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 10:17 »

I find myself chainfiring a lot in UV. I set up a corner shoot position with Knights and Barons and mow 'em down. I wouldn't be able to do enough damage to a Baron at the edge of my vision range to kill him before he gets in range without chainfire. The way I set it up is with my wait time set to a high number, I find a good position and just wait for them to come to me. If I'm not careful though I can get ambushed.

When playing rapid fire, I stay away from corners because getting surprised by a demon when you're holding a chaingun sucks balls. So demons always show up at the range of my vision, chainfire again helps, especially if I can't/haven't yet taken EE.
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