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Author Topic: Poll: which medals can we do without?  (Read 9358 times)

Thomas

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2013, 01:51 »

The problem I see here is that medals have very variable difficulty. Some are intended to be fairly easy to get and some will only ever be achieved by the top players, while some are simply luck-based. I honestly have no problem with any of them. I know I will likely never get the Hell Arena Pwnage Medal or Thomas' Medal, but that doesn't make me want to get rid of them because they were never intended for me. Similarly, I will probably never have the patience for Gambler's Shield, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

So no, I don't think any medals need to be removed.

Removing them based on difficulty is silly, yeah, but Iron Skull in particular needs either a large numerical change or removal simply because the only way to get it is to hang around in City of Skulls/Abyssal Plains for a few hours as a Vampyre marine. No skill or even luck involved, you just play for 4-5 hours and you get it.
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ZicherCZ

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2013, 02:10 »

Voted for Iron Skull and Gambler's Shield.
The reasons for this vote are pretty similar to what everyone else already said.
Iron Skull is a pure grind - you would have to lose and heal all your HP over eight times per level on average (not counting special levels - but even with all of them, it's still almost six times per level). No skill involved, no luck involved, it's simply an achievement for the sake of achievement.
Gambler's Shield is similar. Int1 at least is nearly a must there, cerberus boots or Enviroboots can help a lot here. But even then, it's one lever per level, and there are not that many games in which you can get this many levers generated at first.

The other medals either require some (serious) skill, or some luck, which I consider playable, and I'm fine with them.
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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2013, 05:03 »

Removing them based on difficulty is silly, yeah, but Iron Skull in particular needs either a large numerical change or removal simply because the only way to get it is to hang around in City of Skulls/Abyssal Plains for a few hours as a Vampyre marine. No skill or even luck involved, you just play for 4-5 hours and you get it.
Okay, that's true. I never even thought about Iron Skull before. That really needs to change.
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White Rider

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2013, 15:06 »

YES!

I think you just made your point that Fallout Gold Platinum is more fun to get than Gambler's Shield, despite you originally setting out to get Gambler's Shield. ;)
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Klear

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2013, 15:10 »

Yea, I knew I'll be killing the argument I was supposed to make with that run, but it was so worth it.

Gambler's Shield on my first attempt which didn't get sidetracked by extreme nukage.
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6328.0.html

It might be that I got lucky, but I don't think GS is nearly as luck-based as it seems.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 17:30 by Klear »
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grommile

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2013, 18:40 »

It might be that I got lucky, but I don't think GS is nearly as luck-based as it seems.
In the best case (assuming you skip the Arena), hitting the special levels nets you 17 levers (CC 3, PLab 3, DLab 6, Skulls 1, Limbo 4). In the worst (still assuming you skip the Arena), hitting the special levels nets you four (CC 3, Armory 1).
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LuckyDee

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2013, 00:11 »

Don't forget the two levers in Dis...
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Klear

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2013, 02:10 »

I can confirm that it is possible to pull both of the levers. So in the best-case scenario you only have to find 7 levers (something that can sometimes be done on a single floor). Obviously, if RNG hates you, you won't get the medal, but seeing that I did it on my first try, I'd say the odds are not that bad.

My game gave me 12 levers in special levels, while 6 are guaranteed every game. It could have generated 7 more for me in the special levels (which would put the final tally to 35 levers pulled. If I was quite unlucky, I would only have 22 levers pulled at the end. Not enough, but close, and there are runs with a lot more levers than this one.
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White Rider

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2013, 12:18 »

Doesn't Mt. Erebus also have levers? At least 2 or 3, even?

Bah, maybe Gambler's Shield was difficult on 0.9.9.6, and now it seems feasible. That'll be my project this weekend.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2013, 12:35 »

Doesn't Mt. Erebus also have levers? At least 2 or 3, even?

Good one, I think you're right. Good thing I made the poll so you can still change your vote :)
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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2013, 13:18 »

Good one, I think you're right. Good thing I made the poll so you can still change your vote :)

Yeah, I changed my vote. Still think Iron Skull could be changed to a lower damage requirement, and also voted on Gutts' Heart and GC Cross...though I have an idea on how to get GC Cross semi-reliably... *cough*

Also, I wanted to clarify: GC Cross says you "shoot the mastermind with GCB", but I believe it's "kill mastermind with GCB" ? I had a run with GCB and I definitely shot the mastermind with it, but killed it with something else.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2013, 13:53 »

Also, I wanted to clarify: GC Cross says you "shoot the mastermind with GCB", but I believe it's "kill mastermind with GCB" ? I had a run with GCB and I definitely shot the mastermind with it, but killed it with something else.

I believe I recently saw a mortem of a run ending in Dis, where the GC Cross was earned, but the GCD wasn't the weapon wielded at the time of victory.
To be honest, I don't think I'd take any chances.

And in regard to changing my vote: it seems that Gambler's Shield is within better reach than it was on 0996, but still: let's say you have the most fortuitous spawn of lever laden levels, then it runs the total to 21-22 regular levers; this leaves 4 or 5 to be pulled additionally. That makes it even less a gamble and more an RNG-fest; another no skill, pure luck thing. It may be easier to obtain, but still no more fun, IMO.
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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2013, 12:28 »

I just got GC Cross, and it says "Mastermind killed with Cleric Baretta" on the medals page. Well, the more you know, I guess...
GCB is a hilarious weapon.

Bonus screencap: I had a mind to start/savescum Hell's Armory until a GCB happened--oh never mind
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grommile

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2013, 06:57 »

A thing I just noticed about Iron Skull:

It's actually sane and reasonable on Ao666 (if one admits of Ao666 being sane and reasonable, which is an open question) - it works out as 15 damage per level (well, 15.015... to be precise).

I still think it's a terrible idea and should go :)
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Klear

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Re: Poll: which medals can we do without?
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2013, 07:06 »

A thing I just noticed about Iron Skull:

It's actually sane and reasonable on Ao666

That's why you cannot get it on Ao666 (or Ao100 for that matter)... =)
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