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[Klear]

I'm not going to post this filth in the mortem section, but I wanted to share it anyway. After many many failed attempts at Angelic Pacifist badge, I began to wonder if it's even theoretically possible, plus I wanted to know if the game gets easier in Deimos and Hell, so I made a copy of the game and savescummed my way to the badge.

Some notes:

Phobos IS a lot more difficult, mostly because you have to find a phase device or you're screwed at the Anomaly. I think that's the most frustrating part of the challenge, besides everything else. Most special levels in Deimos/Hell can be safely walked through, and monsters are strong enough not to be killed so easily. I took note and I had to reload the game 6 times in Deimos and 5 times in hell. Four of these were monsters spawning in lava.

Oh, and even with savescuming, it took me over an hour =)

So the conclusion I came to... I guess it's possible. I'll go and have one last look at how my profile would look with an angelic badge, delete it and go back to trying to earn this honestly.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Klear, level 1 Hell Baron Br. General Scout,
 sacrificed himself to kill the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 9972 turns and scored 33867 points.
 He played for 7 minutes and 35 seconds.
 He didn't like it too rough.

 He killed 1 out of 455 hellspawn. (0%)
 My, wasn't he a wimpy chump.
 He was an Archangel of Pacifism!

 He saved himself 10 times.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 5
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Major Icarus Cross
  Compet-n Platinum Cross
  Untouchable Badge
  Pacifist Angelic Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  .........................................................>#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  .&........................................................#
  ......................................&...................#
  ......................................X...................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  .........................................................>#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/50   Experience 0/1
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Intuition        (Level 1)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   green armor [3/3] (62%) (P)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chainsaw (4d6)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [1/1] (95%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] green armor [1/1] (65%)
    [b] green armor [1/1] (100%)
    [c] green armor [1/1] (16%)
    [d] blue armor [1/2] (17%)
    [e] red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [f] red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [g] small med-pack
    [h] small med-pack
    [i] large med-pack
    [j] large med-pack
    [k] large med-pack
    [l] large med-pack
    [m] large med-pack
    [n] large med-pack

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 0%    torso 15%   feet 0%   
    Shrapnel   - internal 0%    torso 15%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  He left level 6 as soon as possible.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he entered Deimos Lab.
  He left the Deimos Lab without drawing too much attention.
  On level 11 he witnessed the Wall.
  Not knowing what to do, he left.
  On level 12 he found the City of Skulls.
  He fled the City in terror!
  He left level 15 as soon as possible.
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
  He came, he saw, but he left.
  Level 21 was a hard nut to crack!
  He left level 22 as soon as possible.
  Then at last he found Dis!
  He nuked level 24!
  On level 24 he finally sacrificed himself to kill the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You enter the damned city of Dis...
 Are you sure you want activate the thermonuclear bomb? [Y/n]
 You use a thermonuclear bomb. Warning! Explosion in 10 seconds!
 Warning! Explosion in 9 seconds!
 Warning! Explosion in 8 seconds!
 Warning! Explosion in 7 seconds! There is a lever (dangerous) here.
 Warning! Explosion in 6 seconds! There is a lever (dangerous) here.
 Warning! Explosion in 5 seconds! There is a lever (dangerous) here.
 Warning! Explosion in 4 seconds! There is a lever (dangerous) here.
 Warning! Explosion in 3 seconds! There is a lever (dangerous) here.
 Warning! Explosion in 2 seconds! There is a lever (dangerous) here.
 Warning! Explosion in 1 seconds! There is a lever (dangerous) here.
 No way! You're a pacifist! Congratulations! You defeated the Spider
 Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 316 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 268 of those were killed.
 2 of those were killed by something unknown.
 12 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 16 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 18 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 2 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 10 killed the bitch and survived.
 6 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------


[Kornel Kisielewicz]

So it is possible? Ha, I knew it! xD

[Tormuse]

Oh, with enough luck, anything is possible.  ;)

And yeah, that's about the same conclusion I came to; it's the small enemies that get you in this challenge.  (or rather they get each other)  :P  Especially the friggin' Sergeants!  :|

[Klear]

I don't think luck is involved here. Morel like statistics and the law of large numbers.

On the other hand, I tend to think that entering the lottery might be more worthwhile than trying to get this badge.

[ParaSait]

Oh but you just wait. One day, somebody will get it legit. And after that, somebody else will get it legit on nightmare. And after that, lots of people will get it legit on nightmare.
:P

[Klear]

I'm... doubtful. I need to do another proof of concept on UV, just to prove that it cannot be done. On the other hand, that's exactly what I was going for here and failed, so I'll not tempt it.

[Rajhin]

Theoretically you can appear on cell near the stairs on every level (except Anomaly and Babel, but this isn't different from HNTR). So this challenge is doable on UV (and even N!). We can move on now.
No skill or fun here, just bruteforcing level generator. You can even calculate a probability of this.

[Klear]

Theoretically you can appear on cell near the stairs on every level (except Anomaly and Babel, but this isn't different from HNTR). So this challenge is doable on UV (and even N!). We can move on now.
No skill or fun here, just bruteforcing level generator. You can even calculate a probability of this.

Sure, theoretically, but there are practical limits, like the patience of the most patient person in the world, or maybe heat-death of the universe =P

[Matt_S]

I'd like to see a DoomRL TAS someday.

[Uranium]

Sure, theoretically, but there are practical limits, like the patience of the most patient person in the world, or maybe heat-death of the universe =P

hmm...

Spoiler: Primitive, probably incorrect mathematics (click to show/hide)

1368 squares on the walkable doomRL map (oh god I hope I did the multiplication right)
215 squares in vision range, assuming they aren't being blocked by walls or doors or 2Dev's mountain of badges

assuming spawn chance for stairs is uniform across the whole map, and completely ignoring any reduction in vision due to spawning on the outskirts of the map, the probability that the stairs are within your vision range is 215/1368 = 0.157 to three significant figures (seems sort of right, you can see around a tenth of the map with unobstructed vision, right...?)

Excluding entryway, Phobos Anomaly, Babel and Dis, there are 20 randomly generated levels.
I would take a guess that 0.157^20 is the probability that the stairs would spawn in vision range for every single level.
That calculation results in 8.45x10^-17.
Or, 0.0000000000000000845.
If you prefer, a 1.18x10^16 to one chance.

Please feel free to berate me on my appalling use of mathematics. I am going to use the excuse that I am tired and have not had a cup of tea in a while as an excuse, rather than the actual reason, me not being particularly good at any sort of statistics or probability.

And back sort of on topic:
I am glad that it's been proven possible!
I can easily imagine how enraging sergeants and blindly rampaging demons would be on this challenge - good luck getting it ;) !

[Matt_S]

New idea for AAoPc AI: they try to kill each other or walk onto acid/lava.  Or stand on the stairs out and never move.

[Klear]

hmm...

Spoiler: Primitive, probably incorrect mathematics (click to show/hide)

1368 squares on the walkable doomRL map (oh god I hope I did the multiplication right)
215 squares in vision range, assuming they aren't being blocked by walls or doors or 2Dev's mountain of badges

assuming spawn chance for stairs is uniform across the whole map, and completely ignoring any reduction in vision due to spawning on the outskirts of the map, the probability that the stairs are within your vision range is 215/1368 = 0.157 to three significant figures (seems sort of right, you can see around a tenth of the map with unobstructed vision, right...?)

Excluding entryway, Phobos Anomaly, Babel and Dis, there are 20 randomly generated levels.
I would take a guess that 0.157^20 is the probability that the stairs would spawn in vision range for every single level.
That calculation results in 8.45x10^-17.
Or, 0.0000000000000000845.
If you prefer, a 1.18x10^16 to one chance.

Please feel free to berate me on my appalling use of mathematics. I am going to use the excuse that I am tired and have not had a cup of tea in a while as an excuse, rather than the actual reason, me not being particularly good at any sort of statistics or probability.

And back sort of on topic:
I am glad that it's been proven possible!
I can easily imagine how enraging sergeants and blindly rampaging demons would be on this challenge - good luck getting it ;) !

...and if we apply more appaling mathematics, we find out that to see this, assuming every run takes a minute, you'll need roughly 1.5x10^9 millennia to have a good chance to see this. I guess I was overly pessimistic. That's not even near the heat-death of the universe.

[Evilpotatoe]

I'd like to see a DoomRL TAS someday.

Bah, anyone could do it : just start a new AoPC game (so, you avoid entryway), and then, savescum...

It'd need a lot of patience, but I don't see the point, really :) I doubt watching a char finding immediate stairs (and getting miraculously lucky with phases on anomaly & cybie, btw) is very interesting.

[Klear]

A small update to tell you that I haven't completely given up on this (just, you know, mostly given up on this).

Anyway, I've just managed to pass the Anomaly without a phase for the first time. I was convinced it's impossible. Sadly, that attempt ended with the bruisers. Stupid me.