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Author Topic: Odd new level: Hell's Museum  (Read 9372 times)

TFoN

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Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« on: January 12, 2007, 06:12 »

I'm not sure I support this one myself, considering how undoomish it is, but I had it in mind for a while:

A short hallway started at the center of the left wall, leading into a wide, screen-high room to the right, full of SS-nazis [this part's inspired by a suggestion on the wiki] - these are effectively captains with damage and to-hit bonuses which make them an actual threat.
Them dealt with, there's another hallway to the right of the level, leading to an item - Dopefish Steak, a consumable Inv. Glode, considering the Dopefish was itself invulnerable ("swim, swim, hungry" :) ). To prevent it from making full wins too common, trying to activate a nuke under the influence notes that you're too dopey to work it.
It's there regardless of kills, and if you feel like running through under fire, taking it, and running back under fire, you theoretically can. That means cowardly hellrunners with good armor on a kill-less game can use this level well, or if you're playing on N!.

I wouldn't have posted this if not for LS and the AoD, and the fact that this is Hell's Museum with appropriate relics of the past and other worlds.
This room, if placed far enough into the game, will also help deal with some of the 10mm ammo issues.

Adral

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2007, 07:24 »

Well, I'm not sure either if that's a good idea. SS Nazis seem a bit out of range for DoomRL, in my opinion.

Other than that, the idea itself isn't really bad, and a portable invulnerability globe with some kind of setback might work in the game.

The most interesting thing I get from this is that a new special level with loads of ammo for the chaingun/shotgun shouldn't be too bad, if there aren't going to be any special rooms like those mentioned in a older thread elsewhere. If you are unlucky it's really not that hard to find yourself out of ammo, sometimes. And considering 10mm and shells should be standard for all the game (at least they were in the originals), I don't think you should really run out of them unless you are wasting them.
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TFoN

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2007, 08:23 »

The most interesting thing I get from this is that a new special level with loads of ammo for the chaingun/shotgun shouldn't be too bad, if there aren't going to be any special rooms like those mentioned in a older thread elsewhere. If you are unlucky it's really not that hard to find yourself out of ammo, sometimes. And considering 10mm and shells should be standard for all the game (at least they were in the originals), I don't think you should really run out of them unless you are wasting them.

Aye, some special levels have great weapons, but little to work them with (Mortuary, SL), while others have great ammo but appear too early to make that advantageous (CC, HA, HoC). There're also rocket-rich levels (The Wall, HoC), but of all ammo types, rockets seem to be very easy to find.
And there's the UC, which most chars/trait paths can't clear nearly safely enough to make it a default waypoint, and in context doesn't have any ammo anyway.

Valkeera

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2007, 16:16 »

Forgive me straying a bit out of topic, but what would you say about a Hell Mausoleum instead - with a layout of concentric circles (and indestructible walls, to add to the atmosphere), and with a couple of examples of every monster in the game. And after defeating the four Archvile guardians / a new unique monster in the center, you would get another holy relic - maybe a Pistol of the Archangel with some insane damage, or Heavenly Boots that would let you walk over hazardous surfaces unharmed.
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TFoN

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 16:30 »

Sounds great, and the boots make much more sense.
I hate having a written 8 which doesn't do much good.
Uber weapons are ok when they're melee, but make one ranged and the game'll be done for :)

But what about the initial idea? What's your opinion?

Aki

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 21:49 »

what 'other' artifacts?
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Adral

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2007, 02:05 »

Forgive me straying a bit out of topic, but what would you say about a Hell Mausoleum instead - with a layout of concentric circles (and indestructible walls, to add to the atmosphere), and with a couple of examples of every monster in the game. And after defeating the four Archvile guardians / a new unique monster in the center, you would get another holy relic - maybe a Pistol of the Archangel with some insane damage, or Heavenly Boots that would let you walk over hazardous surfaces unharmed.

I like the boots idea. It would make travelling in the next levels easier.

But if it's a hellish location, why not add hellish weapons/armor? So instead of Heavenly Boots, just Demonic Boots or whatever.

Uber weapons are ok when they're melee, but make one ranged and the game'll be done for :)
Even when they're melee, if they are uber, they make the game much easier. So I agree, just imagine what would happen with an uber-ranged weapon :P

And I still think we need more ammo :P
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Valkeera

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2007, 08:46 »

About the initial idea, I'm not in favor of Nazis much (though they certainly deserve their place in Hell, right next to Communists), and I'm not sure I understand the part about Dopefish Steak... But I second the idea about 10mm ammo :-)

Oh, and about the pistol - I meant only something "better than Advanced" pistol, as a reward for the geeks playing AoMr challenge. I think it would be better and more in-mood than plasma pistol.
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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2007, 09:17 »

About the initial idea, I'm not in favor of Nazis much (though they certainly deserve their place in Hell, right next to Communists), and I'm not sure I understand the part about Dopefish Steak...
If you remember DooM2 level 31 and 32 - enemies there were Nazis from Wolfenstein 3D, i think TFoN meant them. Dopefish is a standart Easter Egg of ID Software, they placed it in almost all their games(DooM is an exception, as i remember).
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Valkeera

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2007, 13:19 »

I never finished Doom2, I didn't know about this... but it's okay, I guess, if you get a message upon entering "This level is full of former humans in Nazi uniforms", and the usual foos (up to captain) would be present. But I'd still drop that Dopefish Steak...
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Adral

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2007, 16:19 »

Oh, and about the pistol - I meant only something "better than Advanced" pistol, as a reward for the geeks playing AoMr challenge. I think it would be better and more in-mood than plasma pistol.

I agree that plasma pistol, even being a cool thing, does not "get" into the Doom universe, as I have already said elsewhere. It's tha same that sniper rifles, assault machineguns or chainswords: they are cool but not "doomish". So I think I like your idea better if something were to be implemented like that.

Having said that, I think we'll have to wait for the next version, as it will have those nice weapon mods, which should make the game "easier" on Angel of Marksmanship. So perhaps it's absolutely unnecesary.

Also, I thought about the demonic/holy weapons better, and it just strikes me a bit strange that heaven or hell should have powder-based or plasma-based weaponry.

About the Dopefish, if I remember correctly it first appeared on the Commander Keen saga, and was a hungry invincible fish who ate you up :P. Commander Keen, by the way, also appeared on Doom 2 in level 32.

Maybe could work, but I think it would set the mood too merry for a dark universe as Doom is supposed to be.

Here, lots of info on Dopefish:
http://www.dopefish.com/fishinfo.html
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TFoN

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2007, 10:17 »

If you remember DooM2 level 31 and 32 - enemies there were Nazis from Wolfenstein 3D, i think TFoN meant them. Dopefish is a standart Easter Egg of ID Software, they placed it in almost all their games(DooM is an exception, as i remember).
Dopefish's from Keen, and Keen's from ID Software - I wouldn't have suggested it otherwise :P Mostly I was looking for something to work as a portable Inv. Globe, and found that this would also have the useful sideaffect of excusing the disabling of nukes (and as Adral said, Dopefish was invincible :) ).
As for the SS-Nazis, yep, although I haven't played Doom2 personaly, I was aware of their appearence there, and as I had said, that part had already come up in the wiki.

Blade

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2007, 10:54 »

Shame on all of you, who haven't played original DooM, DooM2, DooM Plutonium pack, and DooM Evilution! And play them on Ultra Violence, not the less!
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TFoN

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 10:57 »

* TFoN feels ashamed and initiates dialogue with an Arch-Vile.
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* TFoN is a sumdge on the floor.

packrat

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Re: Odd new level: Hell's Museum
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 17:40 »

Original DOOM (II) had this secret level with Nazis and Commander Keen, so adding such a level to DoomRL too is not not in place. I know that the dopefish is the standard ID Easter Egg, but I don't know enough details about that (how it has been used), so I don't know whether dope fish steak would be acceptable.
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