Chaosforge Forum

  • September 27, 2020, 05:41
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All

Author Topic: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff  (Read 8410 times)

Klear

  • Elder
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1319
  • Twisted passages carry the smell of dapperness...
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2013, 15:56 »

Too useful against bosses. 2 (or 3) uses would kill everything.

I'm thinking more along the lines of changing the damage type and adding an additional cost to using it, but... yeah, that's the Subtle Knife. Making it the same as that is not a good idea.
Logged
Arch-Vile Mjr General [24/19/18/8/2] (0.9.9.7)

Quote from: thelaptop
Dude... we need to change your forum handle from "Klear" to "Klear Nukem".

SageAcrin

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 73
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2013, 18:51 »

Add some knockback to the staff blast. 3-4 squares would allow you to use it as a kind of pseudo-escape effect, which, considering that it's competing with running, is fine enough.

Seems the fastest way to make it better without making it massively better.

Skulls are harder. Off the top of my head, ditch Fire Skull, make a Rock Skull(or something similar) that absorbs corpses for armor/boots durability(can't be too high, maybe 1-2% per corpse, portable durability restore is a unique effect), and make the healing effect on Blood Skull better.

Remember, it has to compete with a medkit. Getting 10 HP a corpse might be really good, but it's also a quite rare item and you still need a fair deal of bodies on the floor.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 18:53 by SageAcrin »
Logged
Arch-Vile Brigadier General, 25|18|15|7|1|1 (0.9.9.7)
(10k enemies/65~ Cyberdemons from Cyberdemon, 1 Diamond from Mjr. General)

Tormuse

  • Elder
  • General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1606
  • More Angelic than not
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2013, 22:54 »

Skulls are harder. Off the top of my head, ditch Fire Skull, make a Rock Skull(or something similar) that absorbs corpses for armor/boots durability(can't be too high, maybe 1-2% per corpse, portable durability restore is a unique effect), and make the healing effect on Blood Skull better.

I kinda like this idea.  It would certainly be a lot more useful than Fire Skulls, especially in Angel of Purity!
Logged
Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

Evilpotatoe

  • Backer
  • Major
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 316
  • Lost Soul corpse
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2013, 01:18 »

Quote
Too useful against bosses. 2 (or 3) uses would kill everything.

Damaged would have been based on current HP, so I doubt spamming use would have been very useful.
Anyway, bosses would still need an exception, and I'm not sure the item would be that great.

For skulls, I like the portable repair idea, but I'd rather couple it with blood skull (healing your gear, somehow :p)

My suggestion for fire skull would be to
 - register every explosion before the first occurs (so that one exploding corpse doesn't prevent 4 other from exploding. ALL skulls in range would inflict damages)
 - change damage type to "holy fire". Something which wouldn't damage player or destroy items. Maybe not walls either.
 - Improve damages if necessary. The idea is to "nuke" the screen when it's filled with corpses. Outside of the mortuary, such situations just don't exist, so it would still need to compete with hatred skull. I'm not asking 100 damages per explosion, but a vile between 4 or 5 corpses should need improbable damages rolls to survive.
Logged
Badges - [26/26/26/22/9/2] - 42/43

Deathwind

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • HMP Angel of Patience 0.9.9.4
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2013, 07:08 »

Here's an odd idea, give the staff rocketjump style knockback? You might need to nerf the damage a bit but would give it some real use.
Logged
v.997 [16/5/2/0/0]

dougjoe2e

  • Elder
  • Lance Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 21:26 »

Given that the Arena Master is an Arch-Vile, and Arch-Viles raise the dead...

...is there some way the Staff could be used to raise a corpse that would then fight *for* you instead of against you.  (Maybe at the cost of Max HP, depending on what you raise...)
Logged
0.9.9.1:Arch-Vile Colonel [19/19/12/3/0]
0.9.9.2:Hell Baron Captain [21/12/7/1/0]
0.9.9.3:Mancubus 2nd Lieutenant  [18/9/7/1/0]
0.9.9.4:Mancubus 2nd Lieutenant  [17/9/7/1/0]

Equality

  • Second Lieutenant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 23:03 »

Subtle knife has atl-fire "Invoke". don't know what is it - but it drain 2 of hpmax and may be raise or summon something?
Logged
Once advanced DoomRL player
Find mysterious sword Dragonslayer
Say "Best thing ever found!" and start jumping around...
But he can't get the sword from the ground

LuckyDee

  • Sound Wizard
  • Grand Inquisitor
  • General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1510
  • High Caliber Consecrator
    • View Profile
    • LuckyDeeIndustries
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2013, 01:43 »

If I remember correctly, the original Subtle Knife cut doorways between dimensions, or some such. Maybe it phases?
Logged
[0.9.9.7G] Current: Hell Knight 1st Lieutenant [20/12/4/0/0/0]
High: Arch-Vile Lt. Colonel [25/21/12/2/1/0]

grommile

  • Elder
  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 205
  • mmm beer
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2013, 13:30 »

Subtle knife has atl-fire "Invoke". don't know what is it - but it drain 2 of hpmax and may be raise or summon something?
The wiki says it does 10 BFG Plasma damage to all enemies in sight.
Logged
0.9.9.7: 22-15-10-0-0 22/43 62/67 (P 349, D 43/67) 36/40 (B19 A12 M5) Arch-Vile CPT

Armorer Platinum and Diamond should be abolished; the Dragonslayer taboo deserves every scrap of mockery it receives.

dougjoe2e

  • Elder
  • Lance Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2013, 17:29 »

Other thoughts on what the Staff could do:

  • Maybe carrying it (or if it was possible, equipping it or putting in the preparted slot) provides X% torso fire resistance (since the vlie attack is fire damage. It could be a melee weapon, too, after all...
  • ...or maybe it makes Viles less likely to blast you or raise corpses - they decide they want to run away from their "master" instead...
  • ...or maybe, if it became a melee weapon, it would have the Vampyre ability, or some toned-down variation on it (similar to how the Butcher's Cleaver mimics Blademaster)

*shrug*
Logged
0.9.9.1:Arch-Vile Colonel [19/19/12/3/0]
0.9.9.2:Hell Baron Captain [21/12/7/1/0]
0.9.9.3:Mancubus 2nd Lieutenant  [18/9/7/1/0]
0.9.9.4:Mancubus 2nd Lieutenant  [17/9/7/1/0]

Thomas

  • DoomRL Wiki and Testing Ops
  • Elder Chaos Guard
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 881
  • How's it going?
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 02:12 »

Making it a melee weapon could be interesting. Considering that you have to fully complete Hell's Arena to get it, likely for a gun-toting doomguy and unlikely for a melee doomguy, it could be a melee weapon that's a chainsaw alternative for people who don't have brute - High accuracy with some drawback.

I'm not even sure if the game would play nice with an item that can be both used and equipped, though.
Logged
Arch-Vile Chaos Major Thomas
[26/26/26/25/9/1]
Medals: 35/43 Specials: 69/67 Assemblies: 36/40

dougjoe2e

  • Elder
  • Lance Corporal
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 17:41 »

Another random thought about what the Arena Master's Staff could do:

If you are carrying it in your inventory when you die, it does 4d2 points of damage (not sure what type) to every enemy in sight.  You then gain half that much HP and are invulnerable for a few turns (3-5?).  The staff is then removed from your inventory.

Imagine:
"You Die!  Suddenly, the Arena Master's Staff glows a hideous crimson and hellish necrotic energies bring you back from the dead!"

...somewhat of a cross between an Amulet of Life Saving (ADOM/Nethack) and the Hell Mask from _Splatterhouse_.
Logged
0.9.9.1:Arch-Vile Colonel [19/19/12/3/0]
0.9.9.2:Hell Baron Captain [21/12/7/1/0]
0.9.9.3:Mancubus 2nd Lieutenant  [18/9/7/1/0]
0.9.9.4:Mancubus 2nd Lieutenant  [17/9/7/1/0]

Dreadlord

  • Lance Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2013, 05:25 »

Another random thought about what the Arena Master's Staff could do:

If you are carrying it in your inventory when you die, it does 4d2 points of damage (not sure what type) to every enemy in sight.  You then gain half that much HP and are invulnerable for a few turns (3-5?).  The staff is then removed from your inventory.

Imagine:
"You Die!  Suddenly, the Arena Master's Staff glows a hideous crimson and hellish necrotic energies bring you back from the dead!"

...somewhat of a cross between an Amulet of Life Saving (ADOM/Nethack) and the Hell Mask from _Splatterhouse_.

This idea is interesting. It could also work as a single charge for the staff - after you die, the charge is gone, but you arise and the staff remains only to act as a lockpick for the Vaults with its lousy fire attack.

Another problem here is that such a change does break the idea of a roguelike, where you  usually get no second/third/fourth/whatever chance for a given character.
Logged

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2013, 06:10 »

Another problem here is that such a change does break the idea of a roguelike, where you  usually get no second/third/fourth/whatever chance for a given character.
On the contrary, some of the most known roguelikes have Amulets of Life Saving (ADOM, NetHack) or something similar (e.g. Blood of Life in ToME), which basically give you an extra life. Even further, these are normal, non-unique items (although extremely rare), and in theory you can have an infinite number of them. ADOM's wishes are a reliable way to receive those.
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

Dreadlord

  • Lance Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2013, 06:20 »

On the contrary, some of the most known roguelikes have Amulets of Life Saving (ADOM, NetHack) or something similar (e.g. Blood of Life in ToME), which basically give you an extra life. Even further, these are normal, non-unique items (although extremely rare), and in theory you can have an infinite number of them. ADOM's wishes are a reliable way to receive those.

Yes, this is yet another side of this question. Here we come up to the point of deciding whether we need an Item of Life here in DoomRL or not.

These items, I believe, will not just lay on the ground like ammo clips. :)

Personally I think it might be handy (homing phase devices, to some extent, belong to the category of life-saving items), however, obtaining such an item here must either be very difficult through special levels, or extremely unlikely as a random item spawn, like the homing phases. I don't think that the Arena Master's Staff which is discussed within this topic can potentially fulfill such a role. It will definitely require more balancing, like making the Chained Court tougher, or creating a completely new item used for such purpose in another special level.

I speak, of course, as a not-so-perfect player who already has enough issues and stupid deaths playing HNTR.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:23 by Dreadlord »
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All