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Author Topic: Impossible to reach the exit  (Read 10540 times)

Matstaal

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Impossible to reach the exit
« on: April 19, 2013, 08:26 »

I was playing an Angel of Light Travel game on HMP. Scout with duals and hellrunner, leveling to Gun Kata.

Than, on level 12, this happened:



This wasn't the result of barrels exploding; the level was generated this way.

I didn't have a Homing Phase or Environment Suit in my inv, and there were none in the level. Also, I was wearing tactical boots so no fire resistance.There was no way for me to reach the level exit.

My only option was to exit to the Abyssal Plains, for which I was totally unprepared and where I died horribly.

Is this lava river without a bridge intentionally build into the level generator? Is the generator coded that at least one of the (2) exits is reachable?

cheers
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Rajhin

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 09:09 »

cheers
You could switch you tactic to run and walk over the lava. It hurts, but better than death.
And yes, it's a bug of level generation. Exits dont play any role here.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 09:10 by Rajhin »
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thelaptop

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 11:08 »

Technically you are on islands in a lava river.

And no, bridges don't seem to be generated.  Feature, not a bug.  Time to start carrying that environment suit that you keep discarding.
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Rajhin

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 11:29 »

Feature, not a bug.
And that is why i never posted any of my generation_failure screenshots.
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2013, 12:12 »

Acid bridge over a pool of wood.
Where's the problem ?
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LuckyDee

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2013, 12:21 »

Acid bridge over a pool of wood.
Where's the problem ?

Good one :)

Seriously though, I think Matstaal's and Rajhin's first example could be accepted as feature, regardless of the progammers' intentions, but the acid example (plus one of my own which nobody officially responded to yet) should be eradicated on grounds of being an eyesore at the very least.

Time to start carrying that environment suit that you keep discarding.

And don't forget to nerf them.
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thelaptop

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2013, 12:35 »

Nerfing not confirmed at this point.  Environment suit is underused as at now.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 12:44 »

Wow. And here I was thinking you had an exceptionally selective case of Tourette's...
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SageAcrin

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 16:19 »

1/100 or less shots don't make people carry envirosuits.

I just tank it and shrug at my lost Medkit or Phase Device. Which take as much inventory space as the envirosuit would have. It is unbelievably rare that you'll be in a situation that you'll eat more damage than that.

If you want people to actually carry envirosuits(as opposed to using them on the spot), have them buff body resistance to the acid and fire you're going to get bombarded with when you try to cross a large open area(namely, a lava/acid river), with no way to stay out of LoS besides careful radar shooting to lure enemies into range, and little guarantee that you've gotten all of them.

Bonus points if it buffs plasma, too.

It's still not that great then, but I can't think of a better defense against, say, a "mess" floor than that, if it had those kinds of resistance buffs, and it certainly fits.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 19:05 by SageAcrin »
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Klear

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 02:26 »

Nah, I think it's good there are places where you have to "get wet", as it not only makes envirosuits more important, but foot protection as well.

I guess it's more sensible to protect your feet than wear tactical boots on AoLT now...
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shark20061

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 06:35 »

If you want people to actually carry envirosuits(as opposed to using them on the spot), have them buff body resistance to the acid and fire you're going to get bombarded with when you try to cross a large open area(namely, a lava/acid river), with no way to stay out of LoS besides careful radar shooting to lure enemies into range, and little guarantee that you've gotten all of them.

Surprise!  It actually does increase body acid and fire resistances!
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SageAcrin

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 08:55 »

*Checks*

Oh.

25%. I see.

So...not enough to keep you from still taking more damage crossing in that situation than you would playing safer.

Small wonder I never noticed.

I'm not asking for a portable Berserk here, but it really needs more than that to actually be usable for dangerous crossings. Since, for non-dangerous crossings, you can keep another pair of boots instead.

Edit:

To expand on this vaguely brushoff answer; It doesn't knock enough off Hell Baron's damage(about 3 points) to stop them from ripping armor to shreds/generally killing you in an open area. It will keep you from getting damaged notably by Mancubi/Archviles/Revanants, as long as you have fully intact Red Armor...but it won't keep them all from knocking you around like a pinball while you try to cross, or neutralize the damage to your armor.

And it doesn't resist enough to keep you from getting heavily damaged in any other situation(Damaged red armor, armor lower than red, armor without fire resistance).

Oh, I'm sure there's some exceptions. You can use it to drastically reduce the damage to...er...Gothic Armor, say. But they're very small niche exceptions. And if you're crossing the lava in a Gothic Armor you probably deserve your horrible death by repeated 1 damage anyways.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 09:08 by SageAcrin »
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Klear

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 09:25 »

The purpose behind the envirosuit is to be able to walk across hurtfloors without damage, not to supplement your armour, you know.
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SageAcrin

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2013, 10:18 »

Which makes it redundant with high protection/armor boots.

(Unless you're no damaging, I suppose. That's a pretty narrow niche, though.)

It is infinitely easier to make it a limited buff that, in passing, makes it good at crossing lava/acid with enemies around, than it is to try to force enough crossing of acid/lava(through RNG map generation of required crossings) so that Envirosuit carrying would be a good thing, without randomly creating unwinnable runs where you draw four large acid rivers early and die.

It's very low odds right now to get maps that require heavy damage from terrain crossing. That's a good thing; It's way too hard to balance without creating frustrating deaths("How was I supposed to survive that? I haven't even seen an Envirosuit yet/used them all up!"). But it does mean that people don't carry Envirosuits a lot.

And even if they did, why would you carry them over a pair of, say, Fireproof Plasteel, which will work for far more crossings? (Honestly, Plasteel's usually enough.)

Personally, I didn't think that was an issue; I've played Dungeon Crawl, and I'm used to all sorts of items having ridiculously narrow niches in order to water down the item generation system a bit.

But if people do, doing an overhaul of boots and terrain generation and item generation to make Envirosuits more useful seems harder than making them somewhat better at doing things besides terrain crossing.
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raekuul

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Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2013, 12:40 »

So the basic issue here is that you're a... well, a moving target, but an easily-targetable moving target while you're crossing those streams, and the fact that you have to sacrifice an inventory slot for it.

...never mind the fact that you should be switching tactics for crossings like that anyway, whether you have boots/envirosuit/lava element/memory hacking or not.
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