Print

Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Adral]

Duh! I didn't even make an official release, and already people are scheming to overthrow me? ^_^

Kiddin' of course -- there would be no greater honour for a roguelike developer, then if his game spawned a variant that would be successful. And it would be the first such case in the post-crawl roguelike world :)

If your game gets a variant it means people are really interested in it!

@Bored on Berserk -- sorry I can't imagine being bored on Berserk :P. What I like about Berserk is the fact that it's a double edged sword, and that sometimes it's a nuiscance. I can't put into the game the main disadvantage of Berserk from the manga (friend or foe) so I try in other ways to make berserk a double edged weapon. There will be traits usable only OUTSIDE berserk in the future :). But I don't completely forgoe the chance of a Willpower based trait that would allow you to reload on berserk.

Ok, I concede :)

Thinking about it, in fact it's cool that it's a double-edged sword, so I see your point. And if there is room for a trait that lets you reload while berserkering (for an energy cost, of course) then we're on the same track :D

@Energy replenishing -- the only additional way to replenish energy that I think might be berserkish, would be a trait that for a formidable amount of HP would replenish your energy and maybe even remove the pain. Why HP cost? To show that Gutts is burning his body! But I'm not that sure of it yet... what do you think?

Hmm... could work - but don't let it replenish Pain. I think it's better to have a way of getting rid of pain instead of running (spending energy), as I said before. Feels more like you are one crazy man taking his last chances against hell! Maybe restrict it so you can only use it when berserk at lower levels, and finally be able to use it outside of berserk when at the highest trait level? Of course, using it outside berserk should cost you more energy - you need to concentrate more and you are not as crazy :P

@Defence when standing still -- standing still is not doing nothing -- if Gutts stops attacking that means he focuses on defence, right? ^_^

I see that point, but I see that, from a gaming perspective, it makes little sense...

BTW, I had a crazy, and probably unimplementable (yet?) idea -- character choice! :P

Berserker (Gatsu)
Fencer (Serpico, pre-eclipse Griffiths, pre-Gatsu Farnese )
Witch (Schierke, Flora, post-Gutts Farnese)

I only added "classes" that would give realy different play experiences. There could be a few more unlockable after game completion:

Forsaken (Skull Knight)
Beast (Zodd)
Apostole (kheh ;])

In the last two cases, the objective of the campaign mode would be slightly different ^^.

Note that that WOULD allow for weapon choice, and a lot of other character choices... but I'm afraid that's a little out of scope... or maybe?

Go. For. It. This idea is just genius!

I think it would be better to focus on it later, when Campaign is implemented, though...

[Fingerzam]

This topic seems to have gotten pretty big since yesterday morning, so I'm posting this before reading the whole topic (for some reason, I can't concentrate on anything right now).

As Berserk is a game of tactical bloodshed, what it needs is to have more tactical options. I have some suggestions for that.

The new skill system is nice, and I have a suggestion on how to improve it.

Instead of having multiple levels in skills, you could have a base level for a skill, and then the player could improve a part of his choice of that skill. For example. After the initial level of sweep the player would have a choice to either improve its damage or decrease energy/time. With Impale the player could increase max range, damage or decrease energy/time cost. Of course Running or Ironman couldn't be changed.

A skill could also have some one time bonuses to buy, or that they would automatically get when you have some other skills, so you could buy Jump before Impale, but it would get the attack part only after you have Impale (maximum jump distance could also be affected by END and/or DEX).

This could work better if the skills had a point cost and you would get for example 2 points after each level. A new skill would cost 2 points and skill improvements would cost 1 point, so that taking sweep and 2 levels of damage and 2 levels of energy decrease would result in a sweep with dmg of a normal attack and energy cost of level 3 sweep (this is because I think that sweep should do normal dmg on lvl3 if it doesn't already).

Well, maybe not exactly like that because everyone would just take lvl 2 energy decrease first, but you get the idea, the player would have a choice to increase a part of the skill fast or advance all parts at the same speed.

Another suggestion is to have monsters that have unique moving patterns and behaviour so that a skilled player can handle a single monster without taking any damage, but when there are more than one, or some other monsters, the player cannot avoid taking damage anymore. This is basically how the Mandagores work now. When there is only a single one I can take it on easily, but when there's a horde of beasts, the last thing I want there is a Mandagore or two. It adds pressure and makes the player want to panic.

And another thing, which possibly should go to RC3 topic. Cannon needs to be powered up (though it might just be only me). I want to have a real weapon of mass destruction, so that it will really kill anything on its path. I can handle a decreased number of cannon balls if they really shred everything apart.

I will cut down the cost of Strength/Dexterity/Endurance by half in the next version. I hope that it will not render Willpower useless tough :/.

I don't know if anyone else has told you this yet, but DON'T DO IT! It will make the game easier and prolong playtime, making the game more boring. A MUCH better solution would be to just give the player 2 points after each night.

[Fingerzam]

Okay, now I read the whole topic and here are my comments on some points made. Some of it has already been said by other people, as I wrote it while reading.

New terrain types, with more tactical choices:
- Castles, with rooms and such (sorta like DoomRL)
- Swamps (already suggested)
- Fields terrain generator with hills and rivers
- Forest with river/lake (randomly appears)
- Caves, with pseudo-natural creation

- Make some terrain indestructible
- Already noted: having some terrain influence your movement speed is a good idea - more tactical decisions

Hills should also give you a to hit/dmg bonus for higher ground and negative bonus for being lower then your opponent. Water could make dodging harder for both you and your enemies.

Sharpshooter - increases accuracy of crossbow, knives, and bombs. Requires: Dex = 14

DEX 14 = sharpshooter already, making this useless. If you want something like this, do not require DEX, as it already provides this, but it would be useful for those who have lower DEX(though might make DEX less useful). This is like those ADoM's learning traits that are useless for those who have the requirements (might have been something else than learning, it has been a while since I played ADoM).

@Bored on Berserk -- sorry I can't imagine being bored on Berserk :P. What I like about Berserk is the fact that it's a double edged sword, and that sometimes it's a nuiscance. I can't put into the game the main disadvantage of Berserk from the manga (friend or foe) so I try in other ways to make berserk a double edged weapon. There will be traits usable only OUTSIDE berserk in the future :). But I don't completely forgoe the chance of a Willpower based trait that would allow you to reload on berserk.

Perhaps make reloading possible while berserking only when you have no fairydust left?

@Energy replenishing -- the only additional way to replenish energy that I think might be berserkish, would be a trait that for a formidable amount of HP would replenish your energy and maybe even remove the pain. Why HP cost? To show that Gutts is burning his body! But I'm not that sure of it yet... what do you think?

I don't like this idea much, I don't think anything other than berserking should affect energy (and of course one use items(=fairydust)), though the idea of using energy to resist pain does sound reasonable.

@Defence when standing still -- standing still is not doing nothing -- if Gutts stops attacking that means he focuses on defence, right? ^_^

Does running increase chances to avoid imps?

BTW, I had a crazy, and probably unimplementable (yet?) idea -- character choice! :P

Perhaps make it possible to have mods, and have these available in an example mod? Though I have nothing against it in the game itself either.

My thoughts on the skill suggestions:
What I blelieve is that Berserk doesn't need an infinite list of different skills (of course, this is just my opinion), but a relatively small list of different and tactically valuable attack/movement skills. But another thing I also understand is that this is brainstorming, and the whole point of it is that everything that comes to mind should be said, even if it doesn't make any sense at first, it can always help someone else get another idea.

I think I'm starting to sound like I'm trying to take the project over. Perhaps I should just learn to code and make a variant, since I already have an idea for one.

Also, this game seems like an excellent place to prototype different character advancement systems, as advancement is fast.

[Adral]

Hills should also give you a to hit/dmg bonus for higher ground and negative bonus for being lower then your opponent. Water could make dodging harder for both you and your enemies.

I like this terrain ideas!

Perhaps make reloading possible while berserking only when you have no fairydust left?

In my opinion, having to spend a trait and some energy every time you want to reload while berserk sounds balanced, but yours could be another idea for it.

My thoughts on the skill suggestions:
What I blelieve is that Berserk doesn't need an infinite list of different skills (of course, this is just my opinion), but a relatively small list of different and tactically valuable attack/movement skills. But another thing I also understand is that this is brainstorming, and the whole point of it is that everything that comes to mind should be said, even if it doesn't make any sense at first, it can always help someone else get another idea.

Actually, you ideas on "improvable traits" sound very good. And they wouldn't help to not clutter the keyboard with thousand of letters in order to use all the skills.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

@Partial skill increases -- this may sound as fun, but it has two problems associated with it -- the first one is the confusion it adds for beginning players -- there's nothing that turns off beginning players from a game then an excess of micromanagement, and seemingly unmeaningfull choices. The other, much harder, problem is the question of balance. And to be honest, I'm afraid to open this can of worms :/. Any ideas/suggestions?

@Movement patterns -- sure, I'll remember it when upgrading the AI. Bulldemons are annoying in RC4 ^_^

@Improving cannon -- hell, it's been improved thrice already :). Also, it can't be gone overboard with, or else people will save it for boss monsters. I see the cannon more of a mass sweeper, then a single hard hitting weapon, on not?

Running does help avoid imps, but now that you mentioned it, it should do that a lot more effectively -- I'll do that.

Reloading only if you got no fairydust left sounds logical, but stinks too much of metagameing??

[Fingerzam]

@Partial skill increases -- this may sound as fun, but it has two problems associated with it -- the first one is the confusion it adds for beginning players -- there's nothing that turns off beginning players from a game then an excess of micromanagement, and seemingly unmeaningfull choices. The other, much harder, problem is the question of balance. And to be honest, I'm afraid to open this can of worms :/. Any ideas/suggestions?

Good points, didn't think about the first one when I posted my idea. I think both can be aknowleged, at least partly, by keeping the number of partial levels low, and the number of improvements low. So that mostly a skill would only have 2 paths with both having 1-3 levels, and only having them at all when they would offer good choises (I like the idea of having the possibility to increase jump max distance)

But I have to admit that balancing it can be pretty difficult.

@Improving cannon -- hell, it's been improved thrice already :). Also, it can't be gone overboard with, or else people will save it for boss monsters. I see the cannon more of a mass sweeper, then a single hard hitting weapon, on not?

Well, I can agree here now that I think more about it.

Reloading only if you got no fairydust left sounds logical, but stinks too much of metagameing??

Well, it does. I just couldn't think of a better solution.

[Derek]

Alright, I haven't played the latest release (only watched the replay), but I want to get my thoughts down before I crumble into a heap on the floor of my room... perhaps some of these ideas are already in the game... if so, please ignore!

1. Movement - One of the fun things about RL's is the exploration, and since this game really has none, giving the player more movement options is a must, imo.  Guts is really a tank, but even he moves around quite a bit in the manga.  It'd be nice to be able to perform jumps... perhaps if you have a tree or wall on one side of you you can use it to propel yourself over your enemies?  Especially if you put in Griffin and some of the more agile characters.  That I think would add a tactical edge to the game that most roguelikes don't have.

2. Goals - New levels, skills, stats, etc., are all good ways to make the player feel like they are accomplishing something.  But there isn't a "final prize" in BerserkRL other than survival.  And in a way, that's very true to the manga (and it's called Endless Mode, after all).  But as a game, it's always nice to feel like you're working toward a bigger goal.  One way to solve the conflict is to perhaps have special areas that have tougher monsters, or even "boss monsters."  Maybe every few levels you arrive at a "destination" and fight a super tough version of one of the regular monsters with a name, and when you beat them, you are told you have "liberated" the area and saved some lives.  That would give the player a feeling of accomplishment and make them want to continue on to the next boss.

3. Friends? - In the manga people are always tagging along with Guts and getting themselves killed, but many times saving his life in the process.  Maybe having some NPC's to help you fight (and ultimately get killed) could be fun and drive some excitement.  They should be extremely volatile... easily killed by monsters or by you (accidentally?).  Generally they would be cannon fodder, but perhaps an experienced player could use them to his/her advantage...

Alright, time to die for another night (day?)...

[Malek Deneith]

One minor thing to consider - is Dextrity really so much better than other stats that it should cost 2x times more? Personally from my experience when faced between putting one poit in Dex or two in Strenght, or four in Will, I'd get more by pumping strenght or will. So what are others opinions on the subject?

[Blade]

One minor thing to consider - is Dextrity really so much better than other stats that it should cost 2x times more? Personally from my experience when faced between putting one poit in Dex or two in Strenght, or four in Will, I'd get more by pumping strenght or will. So what are others opinions on the subject?

We will see in next Candidate, when we will be able to improve stats more than Dex*2, or Str*4 till the end of game. For me Dextirity seem very powerfull, even with so big point consumption.

[Fingerzam]

I agree with blade here. With no points in DEX you really won't be surviving long enough, because you will be constantly getting hit. A few points (3 for me) in DEX makes all the difference, and a character with 14 DEX will survive much longer than a character with all points invested in other stats.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

@Derek
1. Jumping is already in :). I think already Berserk! has the most movement options of all roguelikes. But more "moves" are yet to come! Any ideas BTW are welcome.

2. Yes I agree, and I thought about that too. But somehow I'm not into ideas for that yet... :/ Anyone would like to elaborate on that? I have the idea for bosses, but not for the "events".

3. When I first looked at that point I thought that you wanted to go against what I hold most dear in the game -- the feeling of isolation, but the subsentence "and ultimately get killed" showed me that all is well in the state of Denmark ^_^. Unfortunately the engine is completely unprepared for "fighting" companions -- because of many reasons like the fact that all special abilities of monsters target the player automaticaly etc., but I also had the idea of helpless people in town levels that get completely massacred during the fight no matter how hard you try to save them... Berserkish IMHO. Tough if any of them by any miracle would survive you'd get a bonus (or a stab in the back :P).

@All
If all goes well, RC4 might appear today, so keep your eyes open :).

[TFoN]

Character choice as it is usualy done seems very much out of place here, IMO, as the game starts by bluntly pointing out the fact that you are a Berserk!er. But how about making a choice of weapon much like other games would have a choice of class or race?
I thought about this one a while back, and since the character theme here is one of a very straight-forward, single-minded fighter that just screems "screw pickups, I'll bash rocks with my trusty wooden club", why not have char progression depend on a one-time choice of a weapon?
A great-sword's the default, balanced weapon. A great-axe gives massive preference to the Seep Attack skill, while it will be very weak on impaling. A spear(ish) weapon is the opposite, and is great for a jump attack.
If a bashing skill'll be implemented, a maul'd be great for that.
There could also be differences in the ways dexterity and strength effect play with different weapons.

[TFoN]

Now that I've played the new version a while:

Foresters seem so out of place! I can only see an odd little ranger waking pleasent (light green?!) guardians of the forest! I really suggest changing the colors (T & F?), and making the names more fitting's IMO also a good idea.

Other than that, all's well:
Scavengers are irritating to fight on blood-drenched ground.
Bulldemons went from bad to worse.
Mandagores kill monsters for me, and since they're so slow, dealing with them without taking damage's often much easier than dealing with what they ate, even if it's just a beast.