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Author Topic: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence  (Read 5361 times)

Sereg

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[U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« on: May 05, 2013, 17:38 »

First UV win, first Brain, 16th medal for Heroic Silver, and 100% UV win for Veteran Gold.

Full Colonel sounds hard... might go for another AAo666 to finish off the Cyberdemon rank.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Nathan, level 9 Arch-Vile Major Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 24296 turns and scored 118312 points.
 He played for 26 minutes and 37 seconds.
 He was a man of Ultra-Violence!

 He killed 239 out of 239 hellspawn. (100%)
 This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!
 He was an Angel of Max Carnage!
 He was also an Angel of Overconfidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 4
  Levels visited   : 0
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Mastermind's Brain
  Medal of Prejudice
  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Heroic Silver Badge
  Veteran Gold Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #>#####################................................####
  ######################...............####...............###
  #####################.......####.....####.....####.......##
  ####################........####.....####.....####........#
  ###################.........####.....####.....####.........
  ##################..........####..............####.........
  #################..........................................
  #################....####............................####..
  #################....####............................####..
  #################..%.####............................####&.
  #################....####............................####..
  #################....X.....................................
  ##################..........####..............####.........
  ###################.........####.....####.....####.........
  ####################........####.....####.....####........#
  #####################.......####.....####.....####.......##
  ######################...............####...............###
  #>#####################................................####
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 50/50   Experience 37444/9
  ToHit Ranged +12  ToHit Melee +12  ToDmg Ranged +2  ToDmg Melee +2

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 2)
    Intuition        (Level 2)
    Whizkid          (Level 2)
    Triggerhappy     (Level 1)

  Int->Int->SoB->SoB->Fin->Fin->WK->WK->TH->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   blue armor [4/4] (59%) (P)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   hyperblaster (2d4)x3 [12/40]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   Nyarlaptotep's Boots [6/6] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1]
    [b] combat translocator (0d0) [60/60]
    [c] red armor [4/4] (88%)
    [d] rocket (x10)
    [e] power cell (x50)
    [f] power cell (x50)
    [g] power cell (x50)
    [h] power cell (x50)
    [i] power cell (x31)
    [j] power cell (x50)
    [k] small med-pack
    [l] small med-pack
    [m] small med-pack
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] large med-pack
    [p] large med-pack
    [q] large med-pack
    [r] phase device
    [s] homing phase device
    [t] bulk mod pack
    [u] hatred skull

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Acid       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 30% 
    Fire       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 30% 
    Plasma     - internal 0%    torso 20%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    13 former humans
    40 former sergeants
    16 former captains
    24 imps
    19 demons
    31 lost souls
    11 cacodemons
    2 hell knights
    26 barons of hell
    1 arachnotron
    5 former commandos
    3 pain elementals
    21 revenants
    6 mancubi
    20 arch-viles
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 2 he found the Nyarlaptotep's Boots!
  On level 4 he assembled a hyperblaster!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 8 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You see : a Spider Mastermind (mortally wounded) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider
 Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind
 flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind
 flinched!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a Spider Mastermind (almost dead) | pool of blood | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! The
 missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! The
 missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! The
 missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a Spider Mastermind (almost dead) | blood | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies.
 Congratulations! You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now. Boom! Boom! Boom!

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 861 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 765 of those were killed.
 2 of those were killed by something unknown.
 21 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 52 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 21 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 6 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 15 killed the bitch and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Logged
[26|22|23|15|15|2]
Cyberdemon Chaos Colonel

Medals - DRL 27/43 | XA 16/31

tdef

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 00:59 »

try oOC without MC and tell me what needs nerfs more
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grommile

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2013, 04:05 »

COL doesn't look that hard; you can get it with Masochism Platinum (AoMs on HMP+ without Badass; you can dual-angel AoMC+AoMs), Armorer Platinum (1000 exotics/uniques/artifacts), and Technician Platinum (all advanced assemblies).

It's BRG where you start having to do the really hard stuff.
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0.9.9.7: 22-15-10-0-0 22/43 62/67 (P 349, D 43/67) 36/40 (B19 A12 M5) Arch-Vile CPT

Armorer Platinum and Diamond should be abolished; the Dragonslayer taboo deserves every scrap of mockery it receives.

Sereg

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 08:01 »

My 2 plat for LTC are Tech and Masochism, and I'm pretty far off Armorer, but I suppose that one will happen eventually. Currently been trying some AoB+AoOC runs for Berserker Platinum.

AoMC certainly did help - I've one single angel OC before, but on HNTR not UV. My title comment was moreso directed at the fact that most of my more difficult badges have been achieved through Dual Angels, and all but one of those have involved OC(the other was dual with AoMC, to be fair).
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Cyberdemon Chaos Colonel

Medals - DRL 27/43 | XA 16/31

tdef

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2013, 08:35 »

i don't see how OC makes anything easier, if you can survive hell underleveled and average gear (it's very unlikely you don't find/mod something better than minigun/assault shotty by the time you reach hell) what prevents you to do the same with 10+ more levels and full equipment?

the real game breaker imo is MC which allows you to kill anything before it puts their guaranteed max damage to fruition (as i still see tons of dodges in mc) as soon you get a chaingun which happens on level 2 on HMP+ (or straight away with OC, only here i can agree that makes stuff easier)
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2013, 09:35 »

MC is probably the easiest, but OC makes things very easy too.

You don't have to survive bosses (especially anomaly's ambush), start with decent stuff, and can even scum for good (read overly lucky) start if necessary.
You may even play it the AoPC way, rush the mortuary for the nuke, and blast MM.
Needing some luck over 7 levels is way much easier than needing luck through 24.

I "won" a N! game in 5 minutes as AoB+AoOc, while I just wanted to check starting gear... spawned near demons, chain-sawed them to see how it goes, got zerk, pwned MM.
Going thru 3 episodes, needing to find CC for chainsaw, etc... would have been way more difficult :)
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skarczew

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2013, 12:45 »

i don't see how OC makes anything easier, if you can survive hell underleveled and average gear (it's very unlikely you don't find/mod something better than minigun/assault shotty by the time you reach hell) what prevents you to do the same with 10+ more levels and full equipment?

the real game breaker imo is MC which allows you to kill anything before it puts their guaranteed max damage to fruition (as i still see tons of dodges in mc) as soon you get a chaingun which happens on level 2 on HMP+ (or straight away with OC, only here i can agree that makes stuff easier)
AoOC is easier than AoC for me (look at THAT shotgun). Now, add AoMC to it and you have just a walk in the park. Free exp is just everywhere, just kill some fat Mancubus ass.
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Sereg

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2013, 00:27 »

Yeah, you catch up on XP rather quickly - with a good start.

The idea of AoOC isn't that it's necessarily easier; it's just spammable. You can die a hell of a lot more times then you would starting from Phobos, but you can restart and be back where you were a lot faster, too, so it's kind of a time saver that way.

Personally I've played a few hundred AoOC games looking for Veteran and Berserker Platinum today, with no luck(almost got Berserker, but forgot to use my nuke and tried to finish off the Mastermind without any large medkits - oops).

AoMC can be easier, provided you're decent at damage evasion. If you're not, it has the potential to make things a lot worse. On that note, wish me luck on my current AoMC+Ao100 UV attempt... 
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grommile

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2013, 02:01 »

The thing is, Hell 1's difficulty feels a lot fairer than the difficulty of the Phobos Base Entry setpiece.
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0.9.9.7: 22-15-10-0-0 22/43 62/67 (P 349, D 43/67) 36/40 (B19 A12 M5) Arch-Vile CPT

Armorer Platinum and Diamond should be abolished; the Dragonslayer taboo deserves every scrap of mockery it receives.

tdef

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2013, 02:17 »

for anything MC non berserk just go int2 + Cateye, unless you get VERY bad spawns when descending without phases you should be fine
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SageAcrin

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2013, 14:38 »

I'd almost be willing to say the problem's less Overconfidence and more that the spawn rate on N! is a little too high to deal with reliably early, a few of the earliest set areas(like, yes, Phobos Base, and the Arena, and mostly the Anomaly to be honest) are a bit too brutal, and between the two just rolling the dice a lot on not appearing next to (insert almost any large cluster of enemies) and getting instagibbed is...well, rather similar to what you were doing on the earlier floors. Just rolling the dice and hoping things don't go sour, either way. AoOC's just faster.

Of course, with UV, I don't see AoOC as overly good at all, to be honest...I have way better of a success rate playing it normally.
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(10k enemies/65~ Cyberdemons from Cyberdemon, 1 Diamond from Mjr. General)

skarczew

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2013, 06:46 »

I would not say to "nerf" it, as I really like AoOC (it is fast, allows me to skip some annoying early levels, and brings the feeling of a coffeebreak roguelike altogether).
Just simply acknowledge its easiness and rank the difficulty and badges accordingly...
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Klear

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Re: [U|AoMC+AoOC|YAAM] Nerf Overconfidence
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2013, 07:19 »

I'd say it's only a matter of disallowing getting badges through dual-angels, or maybe just dual angels paired with AoMC or AoOC...
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Arch-Vile Mjr General [24/19/18/8/2] (0.9.9.7)

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Dude... we need to change your forum handle from "Klear" to "Klear Nukem".
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