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[felttippen]

Cheers everyone!
Nothing out of the ordinary here, just bruteforced this badge for some time and today it was supposed to happen.
Strat involved quick stairdiving and 2nd lvl of Intuition.
My damage output was enough to send Spidermind fliching, so thats that!
Have fun!
--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Total Biscuit,
 level 5 Arch-Vile Lt. General Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 8548 turns and scored 100580 points.
 He played for 9 minutes and 34 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 98 out of 300 hellspawn. (32%)
 He was an Angel of Max Carnage!
 He was also an Angel of Overconfidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 4
  Levels visited   : 0
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Mastermind's Brain
  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Destroyer Diamond Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ####................................#####################>#
  ###...............####...............######################
  ##.......####.....####.....####.......#####################
  #........####.....####.....####........####################
  .........####.....####.....####.........###################
  .........####..............####..........##################
  ...............................X..........#################
  ..####............................####....#################
  .&####............................####....#################
  ..####............................####....#################
  ..####............................####....#################
  .........................%................#################
  .........####..............####..........##################
  .........####.....####.....####.........###################
  #........####.....####.....####........####################
  ##.......####.....####.....####.......#####################
  ###...............####...............######################
  ####................................#####################>#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 50/50   Experience 10278/5
  ToHit Ranged +12  ToHit Melee +12  ToDmg Ranged +2  ToDmg Melee +2

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Finesse          (Level 1)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 2)
    Intuition        (Level 2)

  Int->Int->SoB->SoB->Fin->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   plasma rifle (1d7)x6 [10/40]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   protective boots [2/2] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] combat pistol (3d3) [15/15]
    [b] assault shotgun (7d3) [6/6]
    [c] minigun (1d7)x8 [192/200] (P1)
    [d] green armor [1/1] (36%)
    [e] blue armor [2/2] (84%)
    [f] combat knife (2d5)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x32)
    [h] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [i] shotgun shell (x39)
    [j] shotgun shell (x50)
    [k] rocket (x3)
    [l] power cell (x12)
    [m] small med-pack
    [n] small med-pack
    [o] small med-pack
    [p] large med-pack
    [q] large med-pack
    [r] large med-pack
    [s] large med-pack
    [t] phase device
    [u] bulk mod pack
    [v] shell box (x100)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Acid       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 25% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    29 former sergeants
    7 former captains
    30 imps
    1 demon
    3 lost souls
    2 hell knights
    9 barons of hell
    5 former commandos
    1 pain elemental
    1 revenant
    5 mancubi
    4 arch-viles
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 4, hell froze over!
  On level 5 he was bombarded!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 8 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 Find a more constructive way to commit suicide. Targeting canceled.
 Boom! You dodge! You are hit! Boom!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a Spider Mastermind (mortally wounded) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider
 Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind
 flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind
 flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind
 flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind
 flinched!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a Spider Mastermind (almost dead) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider
 Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind
 flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies.
 Congratulations! You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 761 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 691 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 6 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 39 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 22 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 5 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 13 killed the bitch and survived.
 4 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------


[Sereg]

Well now... there's an idea.

Edit: Wow. This is not easy. Even when I pull invulnerability, I find myself getting rocket bounced anyplace other then the stairs =P This will take some doing.

And what's Untouchable Cross? <20 damage, right?

Edit: Must be <50, cause I took 30:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Nathan, level 3 Cyberdemon Mjr General Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 4067 turns and scored 57089 points.
 He played for 5 minutes and 52 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 19 out of 230 hellspawn. (8%)
 My, wasn't he a wimpy chump.
 He was an Angel of Max Carnage!
 He was also an Angel of Overconfidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 4
  Levels visited   : 0
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Destroyer Diamond Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #####################................................######
  ####################...............####...............#####
  ###################.......####.....####.....####.......####
  ##################........####.....####.....####........###
  #################.........####.....####.....####.........##
  ################..........####..............####..........#
  ###############............................................
  ###############....####............................####....
  ###############....####............................####....
  ###############....####............................####&...
  ###############....####............................####....
  ###############............................................
  ################..........####..............####..........#
  #################.........####.....####.....####.........##
  ##################........####.....####.....####........###
  ###################.......####X....####.....####.......####
  ####################...............####...............#####
  #####################....%...........................######
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 50/50   Experience 1614/3
  ToHit Ranged +12  ToHit Melee +12  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Hellrunner       (Level 1)
    Intuition        (Level 2)

  Int->Int->HR->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   minigun (1d6)x8 [184/200] (T1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   10mm ammo chain (x90)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] plasma rifle (1d8)x6 [0/40] (P1)
    [b] combat pistol (3d3) [15/15]
    [c] assault shotgun (7d3) [6/6]
    [d] combat knife (2d5)
    [e] large med-pack
    [f] large med-pack
    [g] large med-pack
    [h] shell box (x93)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    None

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    2 former humans
    6 former sergeants
    2 former captains
    3 imps
    2 demons
    2 barons of hell
    1 former commando
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  Level 1 was a hard nut to crack!
  He left level 4 as soon as possible.
  He left level 7 as soon as possible.
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 8 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : floor
 You quickly reload the minigun.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 You quickly reload the minigun.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a Spider Mastermind (almost dead) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies.
 Congratulations! You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 1897 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 1732 of those were killed.
 5 of those were killed by something unknown.
 35 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 93 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 32 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 6 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 26 killed the bitch and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

[felttippen]

Nice victory there!
And yeah, the medal is awarded for less than 50 damage taken.
I nukedd the Mmind once when i tried this badge and was puzzled when i didnt get it.
Later i was like - damn im stupid -
P.S. my last runs that centered around Int 2 really make me wanna try damageless runs :P

[Sereg]

Heh, yeah, I saw an HMP AoMC+AoMs mortem once that I tried to copy, had to nuke the MM, and only got the Masochist medal =P I was later able to redo the AoMC on AoOC for gold, later platinum, and now diamond, thanks to your proof of concept ;)

As far as damageless runs go, I might be able to pull that off on ITYTD, lol... beyond that, not so much, I think.

[scotherns]

This sounded fun, so I had to copy it :-) Got my first Nightmare win, Destroyer Diamond, and promotion to Lt.General in under 5 mins! Took me about 100 tries though! Thanks for the idea, don't think I would have come up with this on my own.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Ashannar, level 4 Arch-Vile Mjr General Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 1604 turns and scored 86175 points.
 He played for 4 minutes and 47 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 20 out of 207 hellspawn. (9%)
 My, wasn't he a wimpy chump.
 He was an Angel of Max Carnage!
 He was also an Angel of Overconfidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 4
  Levels visited   : 0
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Mastermind's Brain
  Destroyer Diamond Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #>#####################................................####
  ######################...............####...............###
  #####################.......####.....####.....####.......##
  ####################........####.....####.....####........#
  ###################.........####.....####.....####.........
  ##################..........####..............####.........
  #################..........................................
  #################....####............................####..
  #################....####.%..........................####..
  #################....####............................####&.
  #################....####............................####..
  #################.......X..................................
  ##################..........####..............####.........
  ###################.........####.....####.....####.........
  ####################........####.....####.....####........#
  #####################.......####.....####.....####.......##
  ######################...............####...............###
  #>#####################................................####
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 71/50   Experience 6996/4
  ToHit Ranged +12  ToHit Melee +12  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Intuition        (Level 2)

  Int->Int->HR->HR->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   minigun (1d6)x8 [58/200] (A1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   10mm ammo chain (x152)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] combat pistol (3d3) [15/15]
    [b] assault shotgun (7d3) [6/6]
    [c] combat knife (2d5)
    [d] large med-pack
    [e] large med-pack
    [f] phase device
    [g] shell box (x100)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    None

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    3 former sergeants
    1 demon
    2 cacodemons
    1 hell knight
    2 barons of hell
    1 arachnotron
    1 revenant
    6 mancubi
    2 arch-viles
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He left level 7 as soon as possible.
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 8 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider
 Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the
 Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider
 Mastermind flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider
 Mastermind flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider
 Mastermind flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider
 Mastermind flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider
 Mastermind flinched! The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider
 Mastermind flinched!
 Chain fire ( full ) -- Choose target or abort...
 You see : a Spider Mastermind (almost dead) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider
 Mastermind. The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The missile hits the
 Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations! You defeated
 the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 831 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 751 of those were killed.
 8 of those were killed by something unknown.
 7 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 32 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 33 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 26 killed the bitch and survived.
 6 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------



[thelaptop]

Damn dual angels really require some serious looking-into with regards to balance.

* thelaptop cusses at KK for putting it in with little thought

That said, good win and I must salute all those who managed to cheese their way through via this loophole.  =P

[Sereg]

AoMC N! with under 50 damage for an entire run would be something out of TwoDev's book.

It's nice to have a few diamonds now available to somewhat dedicated players without that extreme amount of skill, but I would have to agree that there are balance issues with Dual Angels, particularly these two. It's worth noting, however, that there are some Dual Angels which are working as intended - AoHu+AoMs, or AoP+Ao100, for example. Perhaps it would be possible to disable combinations that simplify one or both components, and simply leave the rest as actual challenges?

[Evilpotatoe]

"Just" remove every advantage the challenges give, and we should get something balanced.

Btw, this would be quite brutal (no speed bonus on AoLT, AoMC would, at last, become a REAL challenge, AOB wouldn't be exploitable anymore... also, AoP without healing would feel quite ArchAngelic :)
Btw, it also means no AoC or AoOC, since shorter game is often a huge advantage.

It would be way closer to what was intended : challenges !Currently, they are just good to win non-standard-N! under 4 minutes and cheese badges...

[Klear]

Personally, I'd simply disallow badge gains from dual angels. You should be playing double angels to further challenge yourself.

[scotherns]

Does this really count as cheesy? It seemed plenty diffcult to me (and I have played a lot). Getting Longinus Diamond by throwing knives at the AoD while running around the Cathedral felt cheesy, but this didn't :-)

Not that I really mind, cheesy or not, it was fun for me, and once I reach the point where all of the remaining badges/medals appear unachieveable, I'll probably stop playing (until the next version appears). Now I just need to find an Onyx and a Nano in the same run to get Armorer Diamond.

[Sereg]

Doesn't feel that way to me - personally, it felt like the hardest badge I've achieved so far. The only cheese component was the ability to spam restart it near the end with AoOC - and to be completely honest, even that required careful play and a very favorable RNG.

Compared to the (presumably) intended method of getting that particular badge, yes, it's on the easy side - but that doesn't necessarily make it easy. Grinding AoOC starts was quite frustrating, because it was so difficult to get a good one, and even when I did, it would generally be ruined by, say, a Hell 3 with a staircase across the map, or a Hell 5 spawn into an army of Mancubi.

As far as Speedrunner Angelic, I'm fairly sure that requires a standard game, meaning no cheese Angels, but I may be wrong on that.

For Armorer, just play Ao100 - not as grindy as 666, but still very likely to manage O + N. If you really want to force it, 666 has you covered.