DoomRL > Discussion

Jackhammer with MAc?

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Evilpotatoe:

--- Quote ---Why add that second bit? Jackhammer *is* a rapid-fire weapon.
--- End quote ---
uh ? And so is double shotty, I guess ?
I'm not sure it should work with TH, but don't tell us it's a rapid fire weapon... anyway, with shell boxes or SM, it doesn't make a big difference.


--- Quote ---(...)it's simply not worthwhile in a game that takes you to level 25(...)
--- End quote ---
"not worthwhile" is your personal point of view. Anyway, don't take Ao666 as a reference to consider a weapon's worth... I'm afraid most weapons would suck with such calculations.


--- Quote ---It paints a giant target on the chest and a "shoot me" text bubble above your character
all enemies gain +5 to hit.
--- End quote ---
That ! is a great idea. I love it.
Well, more seriousely, every weapon pack should have a (useful) effect on every kind of weapon. S on shotguns already enables a rather good assembly, but I think it could reduce damage dropoff with distance by a few %. I'd ask for 1.5%, which looks like a good number to me, but such a change would require testing, anyway.

thelaptop:
We could you know, nerf Jackhammer...

I prefer the SSG anyway after all, and tend to use MAD more than MAc.

skarczew:

--- Quote from: Evilpotatoe on June 10, 2013, 01:40 ---uh ? And so is double shotty, I guess ?
I'm not sure it should work with TH, but don't tell us it's a rapid fire weapon...

--- End quote ---
Mein Gott...


--- Quote ---The Pancor Corporation Jackhammer is a 12-gauge, gas-operated automatic shotgun.

--- End quote ---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancor_Jackhammer


--- Quote ---A double-barreled shotgun is a shotgun with two parallel barrels, allowing two shots to be fired in quick succession.

--- End quote ---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-barreled_shotgun


--- Quote ---anyway, with shell boxes or SM, it doesn't make a big difference.

--- End quote ---
No, there is totally no difference between 2 shots and 9 shots before reloading.


Btw. DoomRL got a design bug: Pancor got bigger ammo capacity in reality (10-shot ammo cassette, instead of 9 DoomRL-like).

Evilpotatoe:

--- Quote ---Mein Gott...
--- End quote ---
I wonder if my post was confuse, but you clearly missed the sarcasm part.

And when I spoke of little difference with SM or a box, I meant, for Jackhammer : 2 or 3 shots between reloads doesn't change much. (10 ammo magazine would be cool, though)

@thelaptop
I agree with you... but I still think regular (moddable) shotguns are often more interesting, outside MAD.
I'd personally add a single shoot option to the Jackhammer, so that it really rocks, but I'm aware it doesn't "need" it, and already has enough potential as is.
It's just that I find it sad that I didn't bother grabbing the last ones I found... since a normal P[1-3]-modded shotty seems better to me.


Anyway, I guess this discussion should probably have reached some Godwin point a few pages ago, since it doesn't seem constructive anymore.
Anyone wanna talk wolfRL ? :p

Sereg:
Everyone who disagrees with me on this is a supporter of genocide.

Godwin point reached ;)


--- Quote from: Evilpotatoe on June 10, 2013, 01:40 ---"not worthwhile" is your personal point of view. Anyway, don't take Ao666 as a reference to consider a weapon's worth... I'm afraid most weapons would suck with such calculations.

--- End quote ---

You will note that I did, in fact, mention it was personal opinion just before you abbreviated my quote ;)


--- Quote from: Sereg on June 09, 2013, 18:36 ---[...]I've determined that it's simply not worthwhile[...]

--- End quote ---

The reason I use 666 as a reference point is because that's the only place I've ever found Jackhammer =P in a normal game, it simply isn't going to be available. It would be fair to say this holds true for every unique, however, and trying to make them all worthwhile there wouldn't be an efficient use of time. Again, the main reason I'm on about Jackhammer specifically is that it's a rapid-fire weapon that doesn't benefit from the only true rapid-fire mastertrait(yet is somehow affected by the rapid-fire prerequisite traits, and I've already explained why I don't feel that's necessarily a positive). I'd go on about how the double and super shotguns don't qualify as rapidfire because their "burst" empties the entire magazine, and while it's calculated successively, that isn't how a double shotgun actually works(unless you singly pull each trigger, but we have alt F for that), while it *is* how the Jackhammer(and other autoshotguns, like the AA-12) actually work, but you've already admitted that comparison was sarcasm, so I'll leave it at that.


--- Quote from: Evilpotatoe on June 10, 2013, 01:40 ---@thelaptop
I agree with you... but I still think regular (moddable) shotguns are often more interesting, outside MAD.
I'd personally add a single shoot option to the Jackhammer, so that it really rocks, but I'm aware it doesn't "need" it, and already has enough potential as is.
It's just that I find it sad that I didn't bother grabbing the last ones I found... since a normal P[1-3]-modded shotty seems better to me.

--- End quote ---

I find it sad as well, since a normal tac shotgun seems better to me from an ammo conservation perspective(as I generally use shotguns from doorways near walls and blow people away one shot at a time as they approach, which makes the Jackhammer's burst less effective then single shots from a combat, tactical, or assault shotgun, since each shot knocks the target back farther, does less damage, and still uses a shell), and plasma rifles, hyperblasters, nuke plasmas, or laser rifles - or hell, even a gatling gun or burst chaingun - better from a rapidfire perspective, since I can snipe with them.

Now, a MAc affected Jackhammer would actually be a slightly better(as far as ammo consumption relates to damage output) shotgun option then tactical, if one were to be lucky enough to find it, and unlike the rapidfire weapons, can't be made to generate its own ammo, so an ammo stack or several would still need to be carried.

Doesn't seem too terribly unbalanced to me.

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