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Author Topic: Reloadable Ammo Boxes  (Read 7713 times)

OldSpider

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Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« on: June 14, 2013, 20:02 »

He can nitpick every single bullet he picks up off the floor.  He tediously counts the number of bullets in the ammo chain he found alongside that poor bastard's intestines.  He can reload a combat shotgun in the blink of an eye.  But... he can't fathom how to reload an ammo box.

This is unacceptable.  This is the future.

If you have the ammo box in your hand, switch to it using 'x', then 'r' to reload.  It should be like reloading a high-capacity weapon; it takes a little while.
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Sereg

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 21:07 »

Sounds like a good idea to me.

And lol at your assessment of doomguy's ammo management skills.
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skarczew

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 02:26 »

A good proposal, both about switching and reloading.
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thelaptop

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 07:18 »

But to be had, ammo boxes should take a pretty long time to reload, considering how tightly-packed things are.  So for things like the Ammo Chain, we are looking at reload times of >3.5s (that's the reload time of a Minigun which holds 200 rounds).

Does this suggestion mean that one can only reload empty ammo boxes that are obtained from already spent ammo boxes, or does it suggest allowing empty ammo box drops and/or an assembly to create an ammo box (no idea how this can be done without being too "weird")?
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OldSpider

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 08:09 »

There should be a minimum time to crack open an ammo box, which should also apply to U-nloading one.  Unloading is always easier than loading, but agree on the time requirements.  You should be able to reload no matter how much is left in the box.  High capacity weapons are normally made for quick reloads and an ammo box isn't one of those things.

Since mods are magic I don't see why you couldn't apply a bulk mod and technical mod directly to some ammo and get an ammo box, and that'd require wizkid 1, which seems to make some sense.  ...carrying around your magic bullet modded with tech...
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thelaptop

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 08:19 »

That would make WK more OP than it already is, and to be had, for all the magic-ness of the mods, there's been an unwritten rule that they are only applicable to boots, armour and weapons, and on nothing else.

I have a slight modification to the suggestion.  We allow the stuffing of one [part] of a stack into the ammo box at one time, and make that cost something like 5.0s or something fairly large.  The cost of that preloading of that stack of rounds is defrayed completely by the much faster reload time of the gun.  This has the advantage of giving the loooong reload times of the ammo box needed for balance, as well as breaking it down into manageable chunks (you choose how many stacks you want to stuff into the ammo box at one time).
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 03:18 »

If I read correctly, once you found your first shell box, you're supposed to clear every level (save cybie) with it, and reload it everytime ? Sounds quite easy & boring to me.


Still, there's one thing I don't get :
Why do ammo boxes make reloading faster rather than slower ? O_o

Without the forums or wiki, I would never have understood the main use of boxes, since I, naively, tought they were used to store ammunitions.

From my point of view, ammo boxes shouldn't be usable directly, they should need to be refilled/unloaded depending on your needs.
Btw, considering how the game currently works, they would be most of the time useless, but the real problem is that we currently don't need to manage ammo.
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OldSpider

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 19:40 »

I think it's under the premise that an ammo box is just like an ammo chain: it's designed to use as little extra weight as possible and every shot you fire dismantles part of the ammo chain itself, so there's nothing to reload.  If you had the time and equipment you could make a new one or actually reload it, but that'd be out of the scope of this game.  So, maybe reloadable ammo boxes isn't such a great idea after all.

In that sense, an ammo box isn't a magazine; rather, it's a clip, which is just like the big ammo chains.  As far as I know you can't easily reload a clip like you would a magazine and bulk mods are meant to facilitate bigger magazines.

Personally, I think DoomRL should switch over to magazines.  For the most part, clips are WWI old school and not realistic in this setting (the future!).  Don't call it a 'box'.  Call it a 'magazine', because that's what it's supposed to mimic.  You use up a magazine, toss it out, and pop in a new magazine.  Otherwise you're limited to manually pumping in rounds.  In that case, bulk mods shouldn't apply to all weapons in the same way; rather, something like a pistol which uses a magazine must have magazines and something like a combat shotgun must be manually reloaded as if it were itself a magazine (which it kinda is, but with a trigger and iron sight built into it).
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thelaptop

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 19:55 »

Maybe not in this incarnation of DoomRL -- it tries to be rather faithful to the source material.

But the next incarnation of DoomRL... sounds like a good idea.
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OldSpider

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 23:10 »

Wait, what?  How is DoomRL faithful to the source material?  Special and unique weapons and assemblies, destructible doors, mod packs, inventory items, different monster types don't attack each other, randomized levels (or it wouldn't be roguelike, of course), no key cards or key skulls, no crusher traps... by my aching elbow.  The very idea that DoomRL is faithful to the source material (what, fan fics?) is like saying Mario Kart tries desperately to be just like Super Mario Bros.  Here I've sweated blood to point out a logical error and you... *sniff* ...you humor me with more fallacies.
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Klear

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 02:09 »

It's faithful in atmosphere, not an exact copy...
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OldSpider

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2013, 13:56 »

LOL  It's no where near an exact copy and is lacking in atmosphere.  It's a great game, but don't sillify my love.
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Fanta Hege

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 14:43 »

Ammo boxes are pretty OP with the reload speed they offer if they were reloadable aswell.

Maybe an advanced trait for reloader 2 that would allow you to reload the ammoboxes or something could work though
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Sambojin

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 18:14 »

I must sound like a stick-in-the-mud with all my "everything is fine just the way it is", but ammo-boxes are if anything, too powerful right now.

They up your ammo carrying capacity AND can provide fast reloads. They even "sort of" give you an extra inventory slot for ammo, at the cost of a quick-switch weapon slot. They're already very good.

They're also "designed" to be used up. If we can reload them, no matter how long the reload time is, we will have all those abilities for the entire game. It will essentially make all characters have incredibly low reload times, whenever they want it, for the rest of the game. It reduces flexibility of weapon switching slightly, but a very low reload time that doesn't ever get used up is very powerful for most builds.

Ammo boxes are already good. Giving them the ability to be reloaded will make them "too good". They'll be the go-to item for every game, more powerful than uniques, simply due to their flexibility.

They're fine the way they are (or possibly too good).
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OldSpider

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Re: Reloadable Ammo Boxes
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2013, 03:23 »

Chain guns are the carbines of classic Doom.  There were machine guns brought over from Wolfenstein, but those were for the Nazis in the special levels, so using magazines doesn't make any sense for this setting.  Chain guns shouldn't hold ammo; they aren't supposed to or they wouldn't be called 'chain' guns.  They should be limited to chains, and what I know of them from modern times is what I've already explained: they're long clips and are broken down as they're fired.

Using 'ammo boxes' to facilitate lower reload times for pistols and shotguns doesn't make any sense.  It would probably increase the reload times and again, magazines don't match the setting.

Rocket boxes don't make any sense, either.  It would make more sense if they used some sort of clip, but that's what the missile launcher is for.
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