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Idea: implementation of a KeyMovie variant for faster online Crawling

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Aerton:

--- Quote ---By using the RNG's state and the player's keyings, the game should effectively be played twice and the same way in both (EDIT(clarity): once on the server and once on the player's) - while using hardly any bandwidth.
--- End quote ---

Yeah, it would work. Unless you are using real numbers or something else machine-depended in game logic.



--- Quote from: Anticheese on February 01, 2007, 02:13 ---TOMENET is an attempt at an MMORLRPG, I only played it for about five minutes but it proves that it can be done.
--- End quote ---

It doesn't prove that is can be done playable and fun.

There is nothing particular hard in implementing a network RL compared to a single player one, from the technical point of view. The problem is to make it fun.

Kornel Kisielewicz:
Yeah, agreed with Aerton. But that brings me to my idea:

I watched the Crawl server lot, and had an idea: Who needs multiplayer anyway??

Let me explain. Roguelikes were made as competetive solo games. As such they were not intended to be "multi-player" but "singleplayer" with he feeling of competition or parallel gameplay. Why do people play on the server instead of their own computer?

1) to have a single score list
2) to watch other people play
3) to have the feeling that they're not alone here

Number 3 is crucial. How does the crawl server achieve that? BONES.

When I thought about that, an idea sprang to my mind... It started with the fun idea -- why not give the ability to use those blank scrolls to write down messages, and the scroll would be saved with the player ghost... then another player could defeat the ghost and pick up the paper and read a message "Dammit, there are tons of killer bees on this level, and they blocked my exit... if you read this, then it means I didn't make it...". Sounds fun?

Well, why not push that idea to the extreme! Why not make a single-player SHARED WORLD roguelike game?? No need to solve time-related problems, as everyone would be livining in the pace they want to. The game would trickyly disallow the characters making changes on the same level, and you would never meet a character in person, but you would constantly witness the effects of other characters doings. Imagine the BONES idea exaggarated to the maximum. Also things like trade between characters via a shop system would be possible. Many, many, many ideas for that I would have, and it wouldn't be too hard to implement... what do you all think? :]

TFoN:
I think you all (with the possible exception of Aerton) misunderstood my main idea: although what you're talking about has to do with the last thing I wrote (well, before the edit), I'm talking about a system to be used for SINGLE PLAYER online play. It has much less to do with multiplayer or game recording, at least for the moment.

If my guess is correct, at the moment there are [relatively] massive amounts of data being transported between server, player and watcher computers, occasionally (or in my case always) causing alot of lag.
If, on the other hand, only the RNG's state and the player's moves are transported between computers, lag will be likely nonexistent.
This should work for the same reason KeyMovies work, where on replay the game is effectively played again, with RNG (which is effectively not so random) giving the same results as it did last time, including level layout, item and monster spawns, damage results and so forth. The game will be played partially on the player's computer (which will require having some game data on it, like the current level), sending moves to the server which duplicates those moves - and therefore the rest of the game. On level travel, new data will be sent to the player (the new level, changes occuring by calculation of turncount etc.), before resuming duplication play. A watcher will be doing mostly the same, though data will only be sent to it - the watcher will recieve level data on connection, and from that point only move data will be recieved (barring level travel), and the game will be duplicated here too. All this may require frequent checksum tests, at least for a while, but also these are minor in size.

Aerton said this requires the game to not have real values in its logic - I haven't looked into the code, but I'm sure this can be managed, even if this will require a [possibly heavy] game mod.
The first things I can think of are magic affinity (at X*1.5*Aff, where X is power up to this calculation and Aff is the number of ranks of this affinity) and ability values (where 17 Int means multiplying power by 1.7). But these can be worked around, assuming they aren't already.

Multiplayer may use this in some way, yes, but for the moment I dare not look that far - I don't even know if this idea, simple in comparison, will work.



While I was writing this Kornel wrote a different idea - sounds bizzare. Ever seen Fight Club? It gives me a "haunted" feeling, like the world around you knows things that you don't. This idea could be incredible, but I suggest making a seperate game which will be designed to contain the unique feel and to augment it.

Kornel Kisielewicz:
Of course it would be a separate game -- the whole game would have to be balanced around that idea. My question is is it worth a try? ;].

TFoN:
As I had said, it could be incredible :)


But sticking to the original topic, as the resident programmer and originator of KeyMovies, do you consider my idea rational and/or usable?

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