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[Aki]

Few things I wanted to gather some opinions on.

First is Whizkid 2 - As it currently stands, the effect of modding assemblies only applies to assemblies constructed after getting WK 2. I think this acts like more of an oversight then anything, and the modding an assembly effect should apply to any assembly that doesn't already have a modpack. Further discussion can be found here.

Second is the rarity of modpacks. This is something that I don't have an opinion on - I just wanted to know what people thought. Do they spawn too often? Not often enough? Should they spawn in more special levels? Should the unique modpacks be made more accessible considering the amount of assemblies they are used in? What do you think?

The third is assemblies in general. I think some of the assemblies need a few tweaks. An example that comes to my mind is the cybernano armor when compared to it's "lesser" cousin, the Nanoskin armor. For the addition of an onyx pack to PPN, meaning you need 2 unique modpacks, the effects are quite lackluster - especially on enemies that can really bring the pain, where the additional resistances of the Nanoskin give more benefit.

What are your thoughts? Where do you stand?

[Eyro]

I think the first two are made laughable with a scavenger runthrough, I really wanna try that now...

[White Rider]

I don't have an opinion on most assemblies. The only assemblies I really care about on most runs are: Tactical boots, fireproof boots, fireproof armor and depending on if I'm in a weapon-restricting challenge: elephant gun or speedloader pistol. Sometimes I make a powered red/blue armor if I get a N-mod from Armory/D-Lab, but it's not that big of a deal if I don't get it. Same with the O-mod, but I've found that outside Armory/D-Lab a few times.

Funnily enough, all of those assemblies I listed are basic assemblies.
I don't need WK to make any of those. I just need the RNG to do what it does best and gift me a mod pack every now and again. Doesn't happen all that often but you know what? Procedural generation. Make the best out of your current situation while dealing with the crap the RNG shoots at you.

[Eyro]

Nevermind, Scavenger either makes you wait a really long time to get it or have a horrible early game. ._.

[Aki]

MSs is also a bad choice to pick on something like Ao100 where you could pick ammochain or a melee master. It also doesn't work on the chainsaw, which would give you an advantage early-game when you need it. I really don't see it as an option here.

I don't have an opinion on most assemblies. The only assemblies I really care about on most runs are: Tactical boots, fireproof boots, fireproof armor and depending on if I'm in a weapon-restricting challenge: elephant gun or speedloader pistol. Sometimes I make a powered red/blue armor if I get a N-mod from Armory/D-Lab, but it's not that big of a deal if I don't get it. Same with the O-mod, but I've found that outside Armory/D-Lab a few times.

Funnily enough, all of those assemblies I listed are basic assemblies.
I don't need WK to make any of those. I just need the RNG to do what it does best and gift me a mod pack every now and again. Doesn't happen all that often but you know what? Procedural generation. Make the best out of your current situation while dealing with the crap the RNG shoots at you.

It's for that reason that I want to discuss the other assemblies - there should be some get up and go to get those advanced and master assemblies, yeah?

[White Rider]

MSs is also a bad choice to pick on something like Ao100 where you could pick ammochain or a melee master. It also doesn't work on the chainsaw, which would give you an advantage early-game when you need it. I really don't see it as an option here.

It's not a bad choice just because you don't like MSs or prefer MAC.

It's for that reason that I want to discuss the other assemblies - there should be some get up and go to get those advanced and master assemblies, yeah?

...No? No opinion.

[Aki]

I didn't say I didn't like it. I said that I can't see it as an (effective) option. If you can prove me otherwise, i'd be really happy, because I like the whole idea of MSs.

[thelaptop]

Not sure if trolling or acting ignorant by choice.  See also this mortem.

I would like to also be on the record once again to state that MSs is awesome for long-haul games, as long as you are relatively patient and careful where you are firing from.

[White Rider]

I didn't say I didn't like it. I said that I can't see it as an (effective) option. If you can prove me otherwise, i'd be really happy, because I like the whole idea of MSs.

I don't know if you're expecting anything in particular from MSs.
A lot of my recent wins (before I took a break from DoomRL) were MSs runs. Like this one here.

Edit: Oh, and the one thelaptop linked, too. That's...another one of my MSs adventures. Hee.

[Aki]

Third time i've tried to write this out. My internet hates me. ;_;

Actually, i'm neither trolling nor purposefully acting ignorant, nor being sarcastic or anything. I forgot that the notation for Scavenger was MSc, not MSs - That's why it appears out of nowhere when the previous discussion was about Scavenger, and not sharpshooter.

I know how awesome Sharpshooter can be and i'm actually planning on doing a run with it - Since pistols get 2 die and you always get max roll, every P mod you apply adds 2 to every hit. Combine that with requirementless whizkid from Tech and you can get some pretty near damage coming off SoG 5 + something like a P3T2 pistol, even factoring knockback into it (doesn't really affect cornershooting, could be annoying if you're not near cover though, but could also save your butt). It's also great on N!, allowing you to punt mobs around.

Let me amend my previous statement:

"I didn't say I didn't like it. I said that I can't see it as an (effective) option. If you can prove me otherwise, i'd be really happy, because I like the whole idea of MSc."

MSc seems too dependent on the RNG for too little benefit, giving you only a 1/3 chance at best of receiving the mod you want from an exotic or unique ranged weapon (Unless you get the trigun or something, of course) - then you actually have to get the exotic or unique to drop to disassemble it, and then you have to have a shot at getting what you want to get. It also blocks Berserker, Dualgunner and Triggerhappy - Locking you out of making the best of a melee, pistol, or rapidfire game, leaving you with a shotgun main and rocket backup - and if you're plaing Ao100, better hope you got that Nano pack from the unique you scavenged.

On the few runs I tried MSc it was really lackluster - that's why i'm asking.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Eyro]

Yeah, I understand that scavenger has a powerful ability in making the RNG favor you modpack wise by way of throwing shittons of mods at you, and I understand there needs to be a trade off.

But holy shit we get to do -nothing-. o_O

[White Rider]

Scavenger standard run? Excuse me while I try it. I've never tried it outside of 100/666.

[Aki]

Yeah, I understand that scavenger has a powerful ability in making the RNG favor you modpack wise by way of throwing shittons of mods at you, and I understand there needs to be a trade off.

But holy shit we get to do -nothing-. o_O

Yeah. You're basically locked into shotguns (Unless you want to do Melee without Berserker/MMB, Pistols without Dualgunner/MSs, or Rapidfires without Triggerhappy/MAC) - and even then, shotguns don't have a powerful assembly apart from nanoshrapnel which isn't as good as some of the advanced assemblies, and you lose out on the benefits of armor assemblies because shotguns, especially nanoshrapnel, favor cornershooting. I mean, a Nanoshrapnel SSG would be awesome, but how lucky would you have to be with the RNG for that to happen? And that's the best case scenario.

And that's assuming you get your modpacks from uniques and exotics - first, you have to take into account it's only ranged weapons, so all of those duelist armors and energy shields and phaseshift sets and stuff? Yeah, those don't count. Second, you have to realize that you can only get the "good" packs from uniques - Exotics only have a chance to give Sniper or Firestorm packs, not nano or onyx packs. Thirdly, you have to take into account that you have only a 1/3 chance at best of getting your desired pack - and 33% isn't exactly lucky odds. And all that's without taking into account the rarity of uniques and exotics - without getting really lucky, you'll probably only see 5-6 uniques on an Ao100 game - and assuming that about 1/3 of those are armours/boots (In reality, 11/26 uniques are able to be disassembled), you'll have 4 shots on average of getting your modpack - leading you to get about 1 nano pack per game from MSc - on Ao100, which you'll probably get a good modpack drop from anyway plus you'll get to keep your uniques and exotics.

Then in actually picking the trait path - you have to choose your poison. Go straight for the master trait and have no early game advantages? Go for Relx2+SM and put off the master trait for a few more levels, meaning you'll have to carry around those exotics and uniques and waste your inventory space? Either way, you're going to have to take EEx2, which is going to be pretty much useless to you. And if you're playing harder difficulties, without vast reserves of ammo and lucky knockbacks good luck to you clearing out those harder mobs on the first few floors, since either way you're not going to have (m)any traits to give you advantages compared to other builds.

It just doesn't seem to be worth it on paper, but I really like the idea - hence why I said if someone can prove me wrong and show it's a great master trait then i'd really appreciate it.

Scavenger standard run? Excuse me while I try it. I've never tried it outside of 100/666.

Doable but you'd be handicapping yourself unless you got REALLY lucky - in which case, you might as well have gotten an AFJ or GCB on a pistol run or something like that.

[thelaptop]

Damnit Aki, more PEW PEW, less QQ.  Don't tell me that you are so uningenious that you can't figure out a cool strat for a given Master Trait?

[Aki]

Damnit Aki, more PEW PEW, less QQ.  Don't tell me that you are so uningenious that you can't figure out a cool strat for a given Master Trait?

At times like this, I honestly can't tell if you're insulting me or it's your sense of humor. I'm not good with this stuff ;_;

As for more Pew pew, i'm playing AoMC atm. Does that count?