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Author Topic: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.  (Read 8259 times)

bolt_thundara

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Sorry if I'm violating some sort of rule, but I always enjoy posting up stuff like this as I play a new game. I found DoomRL awhile back by accident, and the concept was enough to pique my curiousity and prompt a download. I played the original Rogue quite a bit back in HS (about 10 years ago) and really enjoyed it, so a Doom Rogue-like was definitely an interesting concept. The game had just been sitting in my backlog until last weekend, when I finally decided to dust it off and give it a try.

One week later, I'm still playing 3+ hours a day, kicking demons in the face and dying in the Arena xD

I started a playthru on ITYTD, because I figured it would be a good way to get a feel for the game. I went with a Marine (for the HP bonus mostly) and took Iron Man. I was immediately impressed with how polished and natural the game felt. It definately captures the feel of both Doom and Rogue, a combination I wouldn't normally believe is possible. I eventually opted to master in shotguns, since they seemed like a very reliable source of damage, and had little trouble blasting my way thru the game. Cyberdemon got a BFG to the face (repeatedly until dead), and Spider Mastermind got a face full of rockets from the Missile Launcher I scavenged from The Wall. GG, WP etc.

I really enjoyed the special levels. The Wall was very impressive. I wonder how many people missed the goodies on the other side the first time they got there?

All in all, I really enjoyed it. Since then I've been playing on HNTR, since I read in the wiki that many levels are disabled in ITYTD. I had still been playing Marine-with-Shotguns (usually a double shotgun), but have been unable to win again, until yesterday. I also did a few AoB runs to get the Melee Demon kills neccessary for Demon rank. Yesterday I finally found this board by accident, and spent 2 hours reading everything in the Beginners Guide. I understood much of it, but the lessons on Gift Dropping were invaluable. Also, the explanation on shotgun spreads helps me understand why I've been losing. I was EXCLUSIVELY using a double shotty, when I probably should have been carrying a Tactical shotty for radar shooting (since the double shotty is pretty much useless for that).

I've started doing pistol runs today, since I need to get a few caceodemon kills for that rank, and am really enjoying it. Currently alt-tabbed out of my game to type this. I managed to find a sweet Shielded Armor on level 3 from a vault, and found enough mod packs to make 2 High Powered pistols. I have to reload alot (ALOT), but the plus side is that it straight up kills everything so far. I just got Trigger Happy, and will pick up Bullet Dance on my next level.

I think I'll try a Technician pistol specialist next time tho. Seems like I'll prolly run in to ammo and reloading problems later with my current build, and the guaranteed max damage per shot on Sharpshooter sounds niiiiiiiiiccccceeee.

Funniest moment so far: On the second floor of a shotty run, doing good. Took Reloader and then Badass, preparing to go to the Arena (Badass so that the Supercharge there wouldn't decay as fast). I had found a Blue armor and a Double Shotgun (!) from a vault and was like "Yeah. I'm gonna stomp my way thru hell this time." I was just wrapping up a level, collecting powerups and messing with switches... One switch turned everything into lava... I facepalmed and laughed to myself. First time I'd gotten that effect. So much for that run.
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Aki

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Welcome, and congratz! Seems like you're coming along quite nicely.

That nasty effect with the lever is just one of the death-traps that KK has put in to torment us. >:D

I'm not sure by the wording of your post if you meant the whole level turned to lava or only one bit of the floor - generally, if there's a lever that can turn the whole floor of the level into a certain fluid then you'll get a level feeling at the start of the level. All of those messages mean something important that can greatly affect how you go through the level.

Welcome once again, and feel free to stop by the IRC if you're into that sort of thing.
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Sambojin

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Welcome aboard. I was a long-time fan of roguelikes before I stumbled onto DoomRL myself, and like you found it to be an excellent blend of mechanics. Nothing too obscure, but enough "secrets" that it still has plenty of depth. The medals/badges/difficulty and challenges system also gives it plenty of replay value, with each one being different enough to not feel like a grind.

I'm more of an intermediate player these days (I should be by now), but it's always great to hear newer players thoughts and experiences of the game. The forum is always pretty helpful, as is the wiki. Just remember that if you ask for advice, expect to get it, but remember that it's all flavoured by people's opinions, favoured play-style, and their knowledge and experience of game.

Anyway, looking forward to your tales and experiences in DoomRL.
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bolt_thundara

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/facepalmmax

LOL Just did The Wall on my pistol run, and my indiscriminate use of rockets there blew up my backpack!

That said, Bullet Dance+ 2 HP Pistols really does a number on hell knights and barons of hell. Sucks having to reload so much, but I'm straight up killing everything.

Gonna miss that backpack tho :(
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Aki

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The secret to the wall is aiming for either the top or the bottom then camping on your side of the wall - as you can see, indiscriminate use of rockets can blow up your goodies. If you hang around the top/bottom on your side you can still use the rocket launcher to gib corpses as well as having sufficient cover to deal with enemies by cornershooting or one at a time.
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bolt_thundara

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LOL dead. Hit the Halls of Carnage and couldn't figure out how to open the doors, so I used my rocket launcher to make a few. Started to run out of room near the end, and got swarmed by 4 hell knights and 3 caceodemons. With no health packs.

Oh well, time to try Sharpshooter Techincian.

Wish I'd thought to check the wiki BEFORE I died. Didn't realize I could just pop the doors with my shotty. Oops.

Also, the Abbysal Plains is HARD with pistols. I prolly should have ran back and used my tactical shotgun more. I kept getting swarmed with lost souls (which is why I was out of medkits).
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bolt_thundara

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Oh, and I forgot to ask sooner. Can somebody possibly point out a good build for each weapon class for me? I've just been pretty much getting a Mastery and then building tankiness (Ironman, Tough as Nails, etc). IDK if I should sub-specialize, go for a second Mastery (the general one for each class usually), or just build supporting skills.

Like last run, after I got Bullet Dance I started on Reloader so that I could keep my HP pistols full... I generally like to get at least one rank in Badass if playing as a Marine, since it can make a massive difference in HP (esp if you find a Supersphere).
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bolt_thundara

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Wow... This run is starting off nicely. Just cleaned out the second floor, and I've already found 6 small medkits, a large medkit, 3 green armors, and a blue armor. Plus it had a berserk pack and 2 small health globes, so I'm going into the Arena ready to shred.


...

*expects to have all the demons in the Arena first wave spawn withing vision range*
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bolt_thundara

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...

Yep. And the caceodemon was just offscreen, so when I opened up with my shotty, he joined in the fun. Dead.

Gotta love Rogue-likes, lol.
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Aki

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LOL dead. Hit the Halls of Carnage and couldn't figure out how to open the doors, so I used my rocket launcher to make a few. Started to run out of room near the end, and got swarmed by 4 hell knights and 3 caceodemons. With no health packs.

You can open doors by-

Quote
Wish I'd thought to check the wiki BEFORE I died. Didn't realize I could just pop the doors with my shotty. Oops.

Oh, nevermind.

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Also, the Abbysal Plains is HARD with pistols. I prolly should have ran back and used my tactical shotgun more. I kept getting swarmed with lost souls (which is why I was out of medkits).

With pistols, Abyssal Plains is probably the easier of the two levels to take. You have ample cover and can choose when to engage enemies instead of being swarmed - this is unlike the City of Skulls, where pulling the lever destroys all the walls in the level and literally causes you to become swarmed.

Keep in mind that Lost Souls have a 50% bullet resistance, so in actuality they have 20 hp when attacking them with pistols. 

The best way to deal with this pair of special levels with pistols is having an ammochain with Sharpshooter (MSs) or having Gun Kata (MGk) with plenty of ammo - I haven't tried bullet dance so I can't say how it will work with these levels.

Oh, and I forgot to ask sooner. Can somebody possibly point out a good build for each weapon class for me? I've just been pretty much getting a Mastery and then building tankiness (Ironman, Tough as Nails, etc). IDK if I should sub-specialize, go for a second Mastery (the general one for each class usually), or just build supporting skills.

Like last run, after I got Bullet Dance I started on Reloader so that I could keep my HP pistols full... I generally like to get at least one rank in Badass if playing as a Marine, since it can make a massive difference in HP (esp if you find a Supersphere).

It all depends on what you want to do - certain challenges and difficulties will nudge you towards certain builds.

I can't really give a good build for every weapon class because everybody plays differently - so if you'd like some more specific advice then feel free to narrow it down (Sorry!). However, as for general advice, I will say this - TaN and Iro are very overrated unless you're doing a specific challenge/action. For an example of what I mean, take a look at this mortem by 2dev. 100% kills on nightmare without powerups or mods on weapons - and he only took one level in ironman because he had nothing else to pick. I wonder why that could be? ;)

...

Yep. And the caceodemon was just offscreen, so when I opened up with my shotty, he joined in the fun. Dead.

Gotta love Rogue-likes, lol.

If you're not berserked and meleeing, as soon as you hit the arena dive for cover (press tab to run if you're swarmed). This will help you immensely if you're not already doing so.
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bolt_thundara

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I really need to use Run more. I always forget that's an option :/

As to my preferred builds... Looks like I tend to use builds with alot of stopping power. High single shot damage. Hence the use of double shotguns, HP Pistols, and now trying out Sharpshooter. Not really a fan of burst weapons because of inventory space and ammo efficiency. I only like melee weapons for the AoB challenge, tbh. Just too much risk in having to close with everything, and it takes considerable investment in a melee build to be anywhere close to efficient (although I gotta admit, a AoB run is ALOT of fun if you can get it going smoothly. Piercing Chainsaw with 3 levels of Brute is awesome).
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Aki

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I really need to use Run more. I always forget that's an option :/

As to my preferred builds... Looks like I tend to use builds with alot of stopping power. High single shot damage. Hence the use of double shotguns, HP Pistols, and now trying out Sharpshooter. Not really a fan of burst weapons because of inventory space and ammo efficiency. I only like melee weapons for the AoB challenge, tbh. Just too much risk in having to close with everything, and it takes considerable investment in a melee build to be anywhere close to efficient (although I gotta admit, a AoB run is ALOT of fun if you can get it going smoothly. Piercing Chainsaw with 3 levels of Brute is awesome).

I think you underestimate the power of melee builds - they're supposed to suppliment other weapons earlier on and shine late game. (And also, you can get by with just Bru-Bru-Ber).

As for single shot damage, you could try a Gunrunner build. That would help you become used to using the run function as well as take most of the difficulty. Here is the build I personally used. Perhaps that'd be a good starting point?

Did you learn anything from looking at that Mortem of 2dev's?
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bolt_thundara

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I've thought about trying a Gunrunner build next time I do a shotty run. Seems like certain classes build certain weapons better. For instance, it looks like the Marine build burst the best since Ammochain eliminates ammo issues. Scout seems to do shotguns best, since between Shottyhead and Gunrunner they can just blast for days without even aiming. Technician seems to do pistols best. Melee is a bit of a crapshoot. Vampyre can be very good at times, but it's hard to pass up the resistances offered by simply having a knife in your offhand with Malicious Blades. I'm sure Blademaster is good too, but I don't know enough about the mechanics of it to understand how :/

As for learning anything... It's hard to say. I still can't read a mortem very well. It looks like he went with a fairly pure melee build, with a side focus of dodging. I can understand how that works in principle, but not WHY it's effective.
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bolt_thundara

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Wow, no wonder I'm struggling with the Agony Elemental... 4 Armor vs Shrapnel dmg= Diddly. That's a pain in the ass. Lost souls resist bullets, Agony elemental resists shrapnel.

Next time, I'll just lob in enough missiles to clear the room.
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Aki

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Sorry about the response. I took a while longer to do some things then I thought it'd take.

I've thought about trying a Gunrunner build next time I do a shotty run. Seems like certain classes build certain weapons better. For instance, it looks like the Marine build burst the best since Ammochain eliminates ammo issues. Scout seems to do shotguns best, since between Shottyhead and Gunrunner they can just blast for days without even aiming. Technician seems to do pistols best. Melee is a bit of a crapshoot. Vampyre can be very good at times, but it's hard to pass up the resistances offered by simply having a knife in your offhand with Malicious Blades. I'm sure Blademaster is good too, but I don't know enough about the mechanics of it to understand how :/

I think you're on the wrong track. Rather then certain classes doing certain weapon familes better, it's more accurate to say that certain builds can suit certain playstyles and challenges better.

For example: doing a shotgun run. Keep in mind that cornershooting is always a valid option no matter what class. Scouts would give you the most dynamic playstyle, with access to gunrunner and shottyhead. This would be focused around dodging and using movement to control enemies and spawns and stay on your feat.

Techs allow you access to Fireangel, which allows you to laugh off anything that's an explosion. Which is imps, cacodemons, hell knights, barons of hell, mancubi, revenant, arch-viles, barrels, and cyberdemons. Essentially, this allows you to counteract the damage dropoff of shotguns by simply walking right into the face of a big bad guy and shooting him while laughing as his pitiful attacks do nothing to you. NOTHING AT ALL! MUHAHA!

Marines give you access to Army of the Dead, which changes all your shotguns into armor piercing weapons - greatly increasing their damage against foes with high natural armor or worse, barons that have picked up a unique or exotic armor. This saves you ammo and allows you to cornershoot faster and harder...if such a phrase can be applied to cornershooting.

Three different playstyles and neither is really eons above the other. Of course, if you are locked into one playstyle (for example, you always tank everything), then one class will stand out above the others - because it co-operates with your idea of playing. However, that doesn't mean that any class does any weapon family "better" objectively then one another.

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As for learning anything... It's hard to say. I still can't read a mortem very well. It looks like he went with a fairly pure melee build, with a side focus of dodging. I can understand how that works in principle, but not WHY it's effective.

The reason 2dev is manly is because he's a coward. Let that roll around in your head for a little while.

Essentially, the reason that he did so well was because of his movespeed - in that particular run, he got the Dragonslayer, which gives a permanant berserk bonus (60% bonus speed to all actions), but in other runs that he's done he has agility modded boots, armor, and taken as many ranks in Hellrunner as he can. The same goes for his firing speed - if he can attack 3 times with 9d9 before anything can even conceive that he's there, then he can't take damage from everything because it's dead.

DoomRL isn't a turn based game. You decide what you do with your action, but everything is measured in time. The base time for an action is 1 second; ideally you'll want to get this as low as possible. Why? Here's an example:

You have a movespeed of 1 second. You move into the view of an Archvile, which has a speed of 160% = it's base action time is 1/1.6 = 0.625 seconds. The player character always moves first and then the enemies move - so you move into it's view range at the cost of one second. The arch vile then has 1 second to retaliate - with the first 0.625 seconds it charges it's attack, and then (depending on fractional time, which isn't worth going into right now) since you can't move yet, it gets another go and blasts you in the face for 20 damage, knocking you back and leaving you wondering what just happened.

But if you were to have hellrunner 3 (as an extended trait), you would have a 0.55 second movespeed - allowing you to move into the view of the archvile and then plan your next move while it sits there like a derp. As far as it's concerned, it still has another 0.075 seconds before it can even start charging it's attack - allowing you to decide whether to engage it or move out of it's line of sight and find cover.
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