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Author Topic: Nightmare Anomaly  (Read 11397 times)

Sylph

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Nightmare Anomaly
« on: November 09, 2013, 15:51 »

Hiya folks!
Been hammering out a few standard nightmare games recently (I only just got back into the game. Last time I played a lot, corpses couldn't be destroyed with explosives!)

Anyway, I seem to be completely stuck on the anomaly. It seems, on N!, my options are either
a) To find a (lucky) rocket launcher before I get there (Doing the arena every game is a little too much to ask of me), and still take a TON of damage (5+medikits and still died after being knocked about by N! cacodemons so much I couldn't get through the door)
b) Find a (lucky) phase device, and get lucky with where it leads to (last time, a game finished about 10 minutes ago, it teleported me about 10 squares to the left, and I then got through the door, but burned 7+ medikits and still died to N! demons and cacos.

Does anyone have any tips for me? I'm talking standard nightmare game here, and can only really get that far with rapidfire builds at the moment. I'm convinced kornel wouldn't have put a 'Roll a dice, 1-5 is game over' level into the game as a compulsory, so there must be something I'm missing...

Thanks in advance for any help...

(Also, as an aside, I find phobos lab completely impossible compared to military base, but at least it's skippable)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 06:15 by Sylph »
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2birds1stone

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 16:09 »

My advice is usually #GottaGoFaster.

If you're not playing scout, I don't have much of a clue as to how you're meant to do it either, though if you're building slightly tanky, you can use the starting room globes' overheal to help you tank your way to safety.

There's actually a non-terrible chance of getting an invuln dlvl7, so look around for that if you can.

As for your rocket launcher blues, I think it's expected of a player capable beating N! that they can beat the N! arena reliably; I can't recall ever reading a non-challenge victory Mortem which skipped the arena.

Just wanna disclaimer this by saying that my only Nightmare! victories were grinding AoB and getting lucky with int on AoOC; there's a lot of room for error here.
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 16:17 »

Quote
As for your rocket launcher blues, I think it's expected of a player capable beating N! that they can beat the N! arena reliably; I can't recall ever reading a non-challenge victory Mortem which skipped the arena.
I've beaten nightmare arena a few times (beat it on AoB back when there was a diamond badge attached to it, not sure if this is still the case)... I wouldn't expect to do it *every game* though, particularly since the only reward is an earlier rocket launcher, and a horrendously difficult chained court for your troubles. I suspect that most players visit the arena on N! (why would you not, free xp when you already know where the stairs down are), but clearing it is another matter... resurrecting monsters make getting to the next wave very challenging, and you'll usually burn through a lot of expendable resources.
That said, I'd gladly give clearing the arena every single run a try, were it not for the fact that I still get a rocket launcher in perhaps 50% of the games that reach the anomaly, but have never managed to beat the anomaly with the rocket jumping method.
To clarify, GETTING the rocket launcher before the anomaly isn't really the big problem with method (a) in my original post. It's getting PAST the anomaly that is the tricky part, even with lots of expendables.

Are you suggesting that a scout can outrun N! demons? I'm unsure whether I've ever outrun them at that point in the game. I'm guessing you're talking about a scout with 2 points in hellrunner, and the luck to have assembled tactical gear?
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2birds1stone

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 17:49 »

A running scout, even with only one point in Hellrunner, should match a nightmare demon's speed. Without tactical gear, you will need to sprint, but you shouldn't need that many turns of sprinting to get you out of that really nasty bit.
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 09:49 »

Just had another visit there...
Rocket launcher, 4 small medkits, 3 large medkits (2 from the starting room in anomaly), and a phase device. I go into running mode before triggering the ambush, phase device (moves me 3 squares left and 1 down), rocket jump twice to get into the start room, but there's a nightmare cacodemon looking at me from the door. I arm my T2 plasmagun, kill the cacodemon in the doorway, only to have him replaced by another N! caco. I run out of ammo and have to reload my plasmagun, which gets me so low on HP I have to start on the medkits, which allows a second N! caco to enter the start room. The two of them burn through my entire supply of medkits and kill me.
For the record, I fully cleared (95%+) every level except the arena and the phobos base. Fought two waves in the arena, didn't even enter phobos. I had a lot of experience, and 2 levels of tough as nails to go with EE, 3xSoaB & WK...

I really need some help folks. :'(
How do YOU do the anomaly on N!?

[edit - -just had a thought... Am I supposed to rocket jump to the RIGHT, then close the door? ]
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 09:53 by Sylph »
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LuckyDee

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 10:40 »

[edit - -just had a thought... Am I supposed to rocket jump to the RIGHT, then close the door? ]

I have gotten nowhere near N! as of yet, let alone the Anomaly, but I believe this is more commonly put to use than moving back - in which case you're still forced to deal with all of the second room's occupants.
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RogerN

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2013, 09:02 »

I've passed it a few times on N! but am by no means an expert.  Here's my 2 cents:

Your build looks slow for N!.  No finesse, no hellrunner, and it looks like you're not playing a Scout (technician I presume?).  Running is not an option for you, and you fire slowly enough that enemies will get frequent double moves.

There are basically two ways to fight these guys. You'll want to use a chokepoint for either method, so immediately rocket jump to your left or your right.  After that you need either shotguns or Berserker+Chainsaw.  I find shotguns work better than rapid-fire weapons in this case because the enemies clump up.  As they get clogged in the chokepoint they also take friendly fire from cacodemons.

A shell box is very helpful to keep your shotguns running at a good pace.  Also, remember that bulk mod packs can significantly reduce reload time for shotguns, double shotguns, and rocket launchers.
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Thomas

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2013, 14:04 »

The way I pass anomaly in all of my Nightmare! games is generally:
Be a scout (also have hellrunner and/or berserker if possible)
In chained court, clear one half as safely as possible then grab all 5 packs and run for it
Leave levels 6 and 7 ASAP
Be berserk while running through the ambush, run past bruisers, get out
(Optional: If you have berserker, attempt to kill everything instead)

There's plenty of time to kill stuff later, and once you have Berserker you're already basically 100% ready for the final boss.
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2013, 18:51 »

The way I pass anomaly in all of my Nightmare! games is generally:
Be a scout (also have hellrunner and/or berserker if possible)
I appreciate this advice, but it's a little build-specific. Are you saying nightmare anomaly is only possible (for you) when playing a melee-build scout?

I had a go at the bezerk rush you mentioned with a technician chaingun build, but (perhaps due to not being a scout) didn't get there in time. The beserks just ran out.
I also had a go with a rocket launcher, rocket jumping to the right, and made it past the anomaly! (Only to be killed by literally the first opponent I came across on the other side, a former commando). It did, however, make me optimistic that a rocket launcher is key to getting past the level.
I then had another character make it there, but no rocket launcher, and the phase device teleported him into the starting room, where he used a shell box and a shotgun, and managed to fight his way to the bruiser brothers - using only a suit of blue armour, a suit of power AND bulk-modded red armour, *4* large medikits, and 2 small medikits. Only to be killed by the bruisers themselves.

For the record, that's now *6* phase devices in total, not a single one taking me past the ambush. Putting some traits into hellrunner only made things harder, wierdly enough (nightmare demons still catch up with me even without armour, cacodemons kills me easily without armour, and I'm unsure whether missing SoaB is reducing my knockback THAT much, but it seems the demons get to me much more quickly when I shoot at them)

The advice in this thread has been valuable and greatly appreciated, I just feel I'm wrong somewhere when I see all these challenges like 'AoMr on N!' and read through mortems posted here. I mean, I know melee builds are horrendously overpowered in Doomrl (and have been for at least 3 years), but I would have thought it would have been somewhat balanced by now, not made even WORSE by a special level that is uncompleteable without blinding luck, a melee build, or a pacifist build... I'm really hoping I've just been unlucky with phase devices, and the rocket jump to the right method is in fact effective, so you can probably just consider this venting due to phase device bad luck...
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 18:55 by Sylph »
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GinDiamond

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2013, 19:03 »

Try not to rely just on rapidfire weapons.

My strategy to get past the Anomaly is:

a) Get lucky with 2 phases and phase around until I land where I want (either the brusiers, which I would then destroy ASAP or in the room between them) If in the room between, I creep up to the door and open it from below or above, and then go bang bang with shotguns, and then close the door to reload.

Also, know that open doors won't be destroyed.


b) If no phase devices, but I have a rocket launcher, I gather up what gear I want in the first room and drop what I can't fit right away by the righthand corners. I leave the globes be for later if I need them. I then equip red armor and the rocket launcher. I open the door, go out of the first room, and when the walls drop and I get raped, I rocket jump backward into my room MAKE SURE YOU DIDN'T CLOSE THE DOOR. I've found that with red armor on, and if you didn't hit any monster, just one rocket jump is needed to land you safely behind the door. Close the door and recuperate. From there, open the door repeatedly and pick off enemies with a mix of shotgun/rapidfire weapons. Once that room is clean, recuperate, take inventory, change armors/whatever, and then advance to the bruisers.


Good luck!
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2013, 19:24 »

Try not to rely just on rapidfire weapons.
I'm trying this with a primarily rapidfire build. That doesn't mean I'm going to use them exclusively, but I'm using a build centered on them because I believe they're powerful weapons, and I have already acheived (in the past) melee and even hybrid pistol build victories on N! (albeit before the anomaly existed). Using traits like SoaB, shotguns are *much* worse than rapidfire weapons in most situations, particularly taking out N! cacodemons in an open space (More on enclosed spaces later), but I still use them where appropriate, and for most of this crowded start-room ambush.
Quote
My strategy to get past the Anomaly is:
a) Get lucky with 2 phases and...
Of course. Not the 'tactic' I'm interested in here though.

Quote
If no phase devices, but I have a rocket launcher, I gather up what gear I want in the first room and drop what I can't fit right away by the righthand corners. I leave the globes be for later if I need them. I then equip red armor and the rocket launcher. I open the door, go out of the first room, and when the walls drop and I get raped, I rocket jump backward into my room MAKE SURE YOU DIDN'T CLOSE THE DOOR. I've found that with red armor on, and if you didn't hit any monster, just one rocket jump is needed to land you safely behind the door. Close the door and recuperate. From there, open the door repeatedly and pick off enemies with a mix of shotgun/rapidfire weapons.
First of all, I feel it worth mentioning this is pretty much exactly what I do on lower difficulties to close the anomaly. Hearing that you use it on N! I find *extremely* interesting. I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong, but 2 huge issues hit me when I try this (It was pretty much my default tactic when I had no phase devices but a rocket launcher)...
1 The first is that, after reaching the start room, I'm unable to close the door. Between nightmare demons catching me up, and nightmare Cacos knocking me aside, the door is always blocked by a N! demon. (interesting thought just now - 2 steps to the left, before the rocket jump, so that I'm in the right place to close the door, assuming N! cacos haven't hit me yet (doubtful, I guess)...) Not that I usually mind being in front of a blocked doorway, because I intend to knockback-trap them with a shotgun, and the AOE of a blocked up demon-swarmed door seems ideal. Leading me to:
2. No matter how well i use combinations of running mode, shotgun shell boxes for knockback traps, and medkits (bear in mind technicians use medkits in something like 0.2s) I *still* get slaughtered by the demon swarm. I assume my shotgun fails to knock back the rear demons, meaning the ones biting me have no squares behind them to go back into, so instead stay where they are and keep biting me. Also, N! cacodemons are just untouchable with a shotgun in this kind of build (obviously best to change to chaingun after the demons are dead, but resurrecting demons (due to the shotgun use causing an inability to kill them in doorways for no-corpse kills) soon ruin that tactic.) Attempting to fight the swarm of demons and Cacos with a tactical assortment of weapons and items is pretty much how I always die on the level, which had me convinced (before your post) that the only way through it was to skip it or berserk it.

Quote
Once that room is clean, recuperate, take inventory, change armors/whatever, and then advance to the bruisers.
You must be killing those demons SO much quicker that I can. I lose pretty much (ie completely torn apart) all my armour (including a 200% power-modded red last attempt), along with both large health globes, during the fight at the doorway! :D

Just to help me understand this, 2 other questions:

1. What kind of % success rate do you get with your 'no phase device' tactic? Because I've had some remarkably well equipped non-melee marines attempt it, and not a single one has managed to clear it.
2. You posted what you do when you are lucky with phase devices, and what you do when you don't have them. Would you mind going over what you do when you are UN-lucky with phase devices, given that it stops you from rocket jumping to the start room so quickly, and can even (often) land you deeper in the ambush that you were before...
3. What do you do when you have no rocket launcher and no phase device?

Quote
Good luck!
Haha, the day I have even mediocre luck on the anomaly will be the day I get my win, i think!

To note, I can make it to the anomaly about 95% of the time now, though, so at least I have training against the little ones, and I'm pretty confident that the new nightmare (not really new any more) will get easier when I can manage corpses more effectively using a rocket launcher. Thiis is my silver lining, don't take it away from me! :D
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 19:38 by Sylph »
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GinDiamond

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 07:31 »

Success rate for the no phases? Hah, possibly like 40% or so

I don't like to admit it, but I save-scum right before the anomaly to try try again.


I don't really know how you'll take out the demon horde with rapidfire, but what about a burst cannon? It shoots weirdly and "scatters" a bit, making it the only ranged weapon I know of that has a sort of spread.
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 12:14 »

Success rate for the no phases? Hah, possibly like 40% or so

I don't like to admit it, but I save-scum right before the anomaly to try try again.
Hang on, isn't saving disabled on nightmare difficulty?
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GinDiamond

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 13:42 »

Sorry, I meant save-scumming on like Ultra-Violence.

Yes, its true that for me with Nightmare!, if I die, I die. Then I have to hope for a good roll next time.
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Sambojin

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 15:05 »

I don't play on N! much, so you can take this advice with a grain of salt, but here's what works for me:

The aforementioned lucky phase. You can usually get about 2-3 of them by the anomaly, so phase and hope. Then either get out or rocket the hell out of the bruisers.

Zerk running from CC with a *marine or scout*. Honestly, it's heaps of zerk time with a marine or an Int(2) scout to power on down there and get a bit chainsaw happy on some daemons. It doesn't necessarily need a melee build to do it well, you can just do it with guns as soon as you spring the trap. Big guns preferably. The extra resistances are great regardless of what you do.
 
Double barrel shotguns. More chance of knockback, often more knockback when it does happen and a really good spread. If you're going to sit in the doorway and peek'n'blast, do it with a DB shotty, not a normal one. Throw a P, T or B mod on it if you can. Shell boxes, Rel, SM, Fin, SoaB or Jug are all your friends here, so it's not too build specific. Double knockback chance and a wider spread can make all the difference. Reload time isn't really a concern if you just shut the door to do it.

Shottyman. It works with shotguns, it works with rocket launchers, and it comes with Rel(2). Great for any difficulty level, but that step-reload can make all the difference. Be a moving DB shotty turret if the peek'n'shoot technique goes belly up. Handy vs the bruisers as well to rocket spam them to death with a bit of a dodge chance while running.

Juggler. Open door, Bam! Then a few more Bams! Then maybe a Kaboom! One of the best traits for any build, and works great for rapidfire anomaly N! runs. Fill them full of bullets/plasma, then at the last moment (ie: when they're 1-2 squares away) cycle through 2 DBs and a shotty or two. They *will* be knocked back. Whip out a RL if you feel like it. Close door, reload, repeat.

Rocket jump to the right or left, while *already running*.  It only saves 0.1 second, but that can be handy. Just hit run one space before the trap is sprung, spring trap, move 1 space right or left and rocket jump. It'll get you next to the door, then you can decide to rocket spam, peek'n'shoot, or rapidfire your way through.

I think your problem lies in relying soley on rapidfire weapons. Shotguns (especiall DB ones) and RLs work with any build, and are the best thing for this situation. Sure you'll get corpse respawns sometimes just because stacking is harder with knockback/spread weapons, but you'll probably get a few using rapidfire anyway. Try them out. N! limits the shotties a bit, but a DB with a P mod on it still has pretty good chances of knockback even after armour reduction (and gets two chances to get a decent damage roll, with plusses for whatever level of SoaB you have for your rapidfire build).
 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 15:27 by Sambojin »
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2013, 16:52 »

I think your problem lies in relying soley on rapidfire weapons. Shotguns (especiall DB ones) and RLs work with any build, and are the best thing for this situation.
You probably read my original message, and missed my posts where I elaborated on the fact that I'm plenty aware of the situations in which shotguns are useful, and I've actually been quite explicit in stating in this topic that I'm not even close to relying on rapidfire weapons. It's hard not to get a bit annoyed typing this again, but I think that's more to do with the fact that my keyboard is a pain! I think I need a keyboard that's easier to type on! :D
As I said, thanks for the advice. It's all stuff i've tried to do, and it hasn't worked for me despite ridiculously good runs on kit (massive medikit banks, monolithic armour etc), but your post gives me some hope that if i throw a few more hours at it, eventually this terrible luck I must be having will stop.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 18:06 by Sylph »
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2013, 20:28 »

As a further note --managed to get past the level 3 times in a row now. Thanks in a large way to posts in this topic. I even manged it quite cleanly without a rocket launcher or phase device! (although I didn't find a rocket launcher at all, and tried to tackle the lab without it, which lost me that game)

My tactic, now, is pretty simply clearing one side of the chained court with no berserk, then using berserk to clear the other side, and taking the mods, then using the 4 berserk packs and leaving the level. Twice, this got me to the anomaly with berserk running. Once, it didn't work. Obviously I also try phase devices if I have them, and finally I make sure to rocket jump after walking 11 tiles out of the door.
More than anything else, though, I'm ensuring that I run *right*, and making a point to kill only demons and imps with a shotgun + shell box, only turning on cacodemons if absolutely necessary, while always running *right*. The bruisers don't take more than a single large, sometimes I can even do them without taking damage, so they're no real trouble. i think my biggest mistakes were traveling left to get back into the starting room, and being binary about fighting or fleeing the level, when in fact a half-and-half approach seems to work rather well.

Also to note, going for the berserk run seems to *seriously* reduce the chances of finding a phase device or a rocket launcher in time. Gonna keep experimenting with matters of priorities until I get something that feels semi-reliable...
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Sambojin

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2013, 00:36 »

Sorry if I came across as "Now hear me n00b, this is the way." I tend to put advice down as a lowest-common-denominator style, rather than assuming any experience on the part of the poster. It sometimes helps others that read the forums that aren't as experienced at the game as the original poster, it's not meant to be an indictment against your abilities. Sorry if it came across that way.

Congrats on getting through the anomaly a few times as well :)
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 06:09 »

Sorry if I came across as "Now hear me n00b, this is the way." I tend to put advice down as a lowest-common-denominator style, rather than assuming any experience on the part of the poster. It sometimes helps others that read the forums that aren't as experienced at the game as the original poster, it's not meant to be an indictment against your abilities. Sorry if it came across that way.

Congrats on getting through the anomaly a few times as well :)
Aww, you didn't come across badly! You came across as someone who was trying to help, and didn't have any way of knowing my playstyle! Your kind of advice was totally the reason I made this topic, and when I said I was getting annoyed typing, it was because my laptop has chiclet-style keys, which don't work with long fingernails. (I actually cut them all off after making that post, and it had the bonus of making doomrl itself much less annoying, so that's a nice bonus!) :D

Oh, btw, i just got a double-diamond win (!) and posted about it in the nightmare lounge (sadly, not with the rapidfire build I was trying for here), and while trying had quite a few more tries at the berserk rush from chained court->anomaly. I've concluded that it's not worth it for a technician - I think maybe you're better off scouring level 6 and 7 for rocket launchers, phase devices, and invulnerability globes (none of which tend to drop before level 6) than skipping them in the hope that you can keep your chained court berserk all the way to the anomaly.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 13:58 by Sylph »
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AlterAsc

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 12:38 »

Note on right usage of RL:
1. Blow the right door with smth. Pistol, chaingun, plasmagun or with RL. Last one is only if you're desperate.
2. Stand near the line where walls disappear and start running.
3. Equip red armor, jump right. You're nearly guaranteed to jump past the doorplace.
4. If not sure, then reload and jump again.
5. Reload before bruisers, r-jump between them.
6. Yay, it took you 1 small medpack and 3 rockets at worst.
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2013, 13:57 »

Note on right usage of RL:
1. Blow the right door with smth. Pistol, chaingun, plasmagun or with RL. Last one is only if you're desperate.
2. Stand near the line where walls disappear and start running.
3. Equip red armor, jump right. You're nearly guaranteed to jump past the doorplace.
4. If not sure, then reload and jump again.
5. Reload before bruisers, r-jump between them.
6. Yay, it took you 1 small medpack and 3 rockets at worst.

Wow, I always thought I was landing in front of the door simply because that's how far I would travel. Didnt think the door was stopping me! How stupid was I!
I remember testing rocket jumps in CC+, and I don't remember going anywhere near that far! I guess I should do some more experimentation, but I'm loathe to experiment in live games, and don't bother with that savegame file malarky. :/

Thinking though - the bruisers are pretty easy to take down without being very damaged, and probably worth the experience to a lot of PC, yes?

oh, and thanks for the tip!
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AlterAsc

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2013, 04:08 »

Bruisers can give a lot of exp, however beware of sudden sudden nightmare rape-party from behind. Not likely, but can screw you over if you take too much time at killing them.
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Sambojin

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2013, 00:30 »

Does running speed effect rocket jumps? I'm pretty sure anti-knockback does (so take off your boots/don't level into TaN/BA), and anti-grav boots should increase rocket jumping distance, but I'm not sure about running speed.

I'll have a fiddle with it after I've played a fair bit of prospectorRL (new release, so its bug-checking time).
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Sylph

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2013, 14:49 »

I'm starting to think the problems I'm having on this level are all down to when I'm using a phase device. I'm suspicious that it might be better to lead the ambush to the left before phasing - phasing as soon as I trigger the ambush *very* consistently gets me in more trouble than if I had not phased at all, and I've lost quite a lot of characters to it, where I believe not phasing at all wound have been much more successful.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 18:04 by Sylph »
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LuckyDee

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Re: Nightmare Anomaly
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2013, 00:12 »

I'm pretty sure that just a superstition, although I know the feeling. Depending on what type of game I was playing, I used phases more than a couple of times - usually right at the start - and they landed me in about every possible spot in the level. Including the starting room, iirc.

But mostly in the room between the ambush and the Brothers.
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