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Strongman badges

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Sylph:
Hi,
I'm working on strongman platinum and diamond at the moment. I'm having trouble understanding what, exactly, the criteria are for this.
Reading previous posts, I've read conflicting ideas:

1. Any enemy dies while you are armed with a weapon fails you
2. You are allowed to punch enemies while you have a weapon armed, but they may not die by any other means.
3. Enemies who die on the turn you fire a weapon mean a fail

I'm wondering which of the above is true. I'm also wondering whether we're allowed to break crates (right-click on them with fists equipped), whether we can use right-clicking to punch people when we have no weapon equipped, whether monsters that die from acid/lava while I have a weapon equipped counts again me, etc.

Anyone know for certain which of these apply in the current version? It's frustrating that testing is so hard, because there's no record on my character sheet of whether I've broken the rules, and therefor can only test by winning games (which on AoOC HNTR might be a good way of testing, now that I think about it)
[edit - no it wouldn't. Too difficult to start out with fists only that deep, factoring deaths, would probably take longer than AoC runs overall]

playing for ages and being unsure whether I'm already disqualified is stressful! :D

LuckyDee:
Here's what I believe is true:


--- Quote from: Sylph on November 23, 2013, 08:25 ---1. Any enemy dies while you are armed with a weapon fails you
--- End quote ---

I think that should be "any enemy that dies by any means other than you punching them while you are armed with a weapon fails you"
I also think this is exactly what you meant, but I added it for completeness' sake.


--- Quote from: Sylph on November 23, 2013, 08:25 ---2. You are allowed to punch enemies while you have a weapon armed, but they may not die by any other means.
--- End quote ---

Correct, see 1.


--- Quote from: Sylph on November 23, 2013, 08:25 ---3. Enemies who die on the turn you fire a weapon mean a fail
--- End quote ---

Correct. They either a) die because you shoot them, which means a fail or b) die in circumstances listed under 2.

So I think all of your suggestions are true. I also fail to see where they conflict each other. This discussion makes me wonder whether nuking a level will also fail your run, and - if possibly so - whether it matters what type of weapon you are holding on the moment of impact.

Some more assumptions:


--- Quote from: Sylph on November 23, 2013, 08:25 ---I'm also wondering whether we're allowed to break crates (right-click on them with fists equipped)
--- End quote ---

Unsure about the usage of the mouse, but it seems to have no relation to the Strongman badge as far as I can see. I'd even say that it's OK to shoot them to pieces with any weapon you can find, as long as no monster dies while you're holding it.


--- Quote from: Sylph on November 23, 2013, 08:25 ---whether we can use right-clicking to punch people when we have no weapon equipped
--- End quote ---

Again, unsure about the mouse usage. As long as you're not holding a weapon, I believe you're free to do cartwheels and throw rose petals about, nothing could ever break your Strongman run.


--- Quote from: Sylph on November 23, 2013, 08:25 ---whether monsters that die from acid/lava while I have a weapon equipped counts again me
--- End quote ---

See 2. again.

On a last note: I've been informed that it's OK to wound monsters with guns as long as you don't kill them with one. This is already implied by the entire summary above, but I thought I'd list it just to have everything covered.
Disclaimer: this is all based on hearsay and a small amount of trial and error, not on actual knowledge of the mechanics.

thelaptop:
I'll put it in another way.  In the repo, we track deaths by "other things" separately, so that accidental environmental deaths do not count against you.  However, I don't see evidence that this behaviour is in 0.9.9.7, so the current (buggy) book keeping is in place.

Tormuse:
If you want my advice, for fist-only challenges, keep your weapons unequipped at all times unless absolutely necessary.  That's how I played all of my successful fist-only games.  Any time I tried using weapons, I botched it and screwed up the run; it's just too much to keep track of.

(That's just my opinion, though; if you can manage it, then power to you!)  :)

Sylph:
Turmuse - what would you deem 'absolutely necessary'?
I can't get through phobos 2 and the arena without at least shooting imps once to pull them over to me and finish them in 1-2 hits. I also don't have a chance of doing the arena without shooting demons and cacodemons.
Phobos 3 is similarly difficult, as are the first few hellknights.
A bit of guidance as to what absolutely necessary is would help me TONS!


What I'd really see as fair in a future version, is some kind of indication of whether or not we're still elligible. A kill list per weapon on some extended ingame stats would do the trick.

(The bad part is, I once had a run where I found a nano pack, constructed power armour, LOST the power armour, found ANOTHER nano pack, got ANOTHER power armour, 100% and hadn't killed a single monster without fists... Did the cathedral, compared the spear to the chainsaw for damage, and decided to keep the chainsaw for mastermind (figured spear looked like it might do too much damage to 'only wound him'), went down to the next level, hit the first former I saw, then heard the chainsaw sound effect! AARGH! :D)

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