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[smgamer240]

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Steven Moore, level 10 Cacodemon Sergeant Major Marine,
 let an arachnotron get him on level 5 of Hell.
 He survived 96611 turns and scored 106164 points.
 He played for 1 hour, 12 minutes and 38 seconds.
 He wasn't afraid to be hurt plenty.

 He killed 751 out of 794 hellspawn. (94%)
 He held his right to remain violent.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 6
  Levels completed : 4

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (gold cluster)
  Heroic Bronze Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ....0||.#.............#..................|.........0..#===#
  ........#...##........#...........##..................#===#
  ..|...|.#...##........#.....%.....##....##............#===#
  #########......0.##...#......##.........##..##........#===#
  ..|.....#.^##....##...#......##.............##.##....A+===#
  |.......#|.##.##......#...##........#^##.......##.....#===#
  ........#.....##...0......===.A##..................RA.#===#
  #########.......>.....#..=====.............===...##...#===#
  ........#..##.....0...#..=====..X.===.....=====..##...#===#
  ##+######..##.##.B.......=====...=====..|.=====.......#===#
  ........#.....##.#....#...===....=====....=====....0..#===#
  #####+###........##...#+#.=......=====..###===#########===#
  ....^}..#.............#...........==..................#===#
  ........#..##.##......................................#===#
  ..##..+.+..##.##..##..#...............................#===#
  ..##....#.........##..########......###.###.###############
  0.......#.........^...#...................................#
  ........#.............#0^.................................#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/60   Experience 47079/10
  ToHit Ranged +2  ToHit Melee +2  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Reloader         (Level 2)
    Eagle Eye        (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Badass           (Level 1)
    Shottyman        (Level 1)

  Rel->Rel->SM->Fin->Fin->HR->HR->DM->Bad->EE->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   tactical shotgun (8d3) [4/5]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   tactical boots [0/0] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] plasma rifle (1d7)x8 [40/40] (F1)
    [b] missile launcher (6d6) [4/4]
    [c] shotgun shell (x70)
    [d] shotgun shell (x70)
    [e] shotgun shell (x70)
    [f] shotgun shell (x70)
    [g] shotgun shell (x70)
    [h] rocket (x8)
    [i] power cell (x64)
    [j] power cell (x70)
    [k] power cell (x70)
    [l] small med-pack
    [m] homing phase device
    [n] envirosuit pack

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    None

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    80 former humans
    92 former sergeants
    24 former captains
    127 imps
    26 demons
    259 lost souls
    22 cacodemons
    31 hell knights
    22 barons of hell
    10 arachnotrons
    10 former commandos
    24 pain elementals
    1 revenant
    5 mancubi
    2 arch-viles
    5 elite former humans
    5 elite former sergeants
    2 elite former captains
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 agony elemental
    1 Cyberdemon

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 7 he marched into the Military Base.
  On level 7 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
  He purified his fellow comrades.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he entered Hell's Armory.
  He left the Armory without drawing too much attention.
  On level 11 he arrived at the Containment Area.
  He emerged from the Containment Area victorious!
  On level 12 he romped upon the Abyssal Plains.
  He slaughtered the beasts living there.
  On level 14 he assembled a tactical boots!
  On level 15 he found the Hellwave Pack!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  Level 18 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
  He came, he saw, but he left.
  Entering level 21 he was almost dead...
  On level 21 he finally let an arachnotron get him.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You enter Hell, level 5.
 You use a small med-pack. You feel healed.
 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 You hear the scream of a freed soul!
 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 You are hit! You are hit!
 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 Boom! You are hit! Boom! Boom! Boom!
 You use a Hellwave Pack. The barrel explodes! The barrel explodes! The
 arachnotron dies. The barrel explodes!
 You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You die!... Press
 <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 214 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 191 of those were killed.
 3 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 14 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 6 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 6 killed the bitch and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

This is my best run on HMP that I had a few days ago. I went for a Shotgun build as usual. It started out easily enough. I got Shottyman at the third level. Easy Chained Court and Military Base was cake. I was lucky to find Power and Tech Mod Packs to make the Tactical Shotgun before getting to the Phobos Anomaly. From there, it wasn't going too bad. I didn't complete Hell's Armory fully because I didn't have enough Medpacks for the battle with the Shambler. I killed everything else there though.

After that, I managed to complete both the Containment Area and the Abyssal Plains without too much pain. The Backpack from the Containment Area really helps a lot. Continuing deeper I found two Agility Mods and decided to make the Tactical Boots, to help my move speed a bit. Soon later I found a Hellwave Pack, although I didn't really know what it does. I kept it with me in case it might come in handy.

The Cyberdemon wasn't too bad, although because I didn't get the BFG in this run, I had to resort to using the Missile Launcher against him. Still, I didn't get knocked around
too much by his Rockets. Dodgemaster and Hellrunner helps. Once in Hell, things went fine for a decent while. Even though there were several times I was out of Med Packs so I had to play carefully. I entered the vaults, but because I didn't have the Staff from the Arena Master, I just left. Although I did try to blow my way in a few times where the wiki says the weak walls are. It didn't work, so I just forgot about it.

Later, on Hell Floor 4 I was getting rather beat-up, but I managed to get to safety and get to the next level. However, this is when thing went sour. I had nearly nothing to use to heal and there was a dang Arachnotron in front of me. He managed to weaken me even more. I then used that Hellwave Pack still unaware of what it does, and it made several things explode. It didn't deal enough damage to the Arachnotron so I just tried to get out of its line of sight, but it didn't work and it killed me.

It was a pretty exciting run though and I got pretty far. I could have used that Homing Phase Device I had to escape but who knows if it would have worked or put me in another dangerous situation. I learned something though, apparently Army of the Dead isn't such a useful master trait at all. The armor piercing was not doing me any good in the long run. I did use that trait in previous HMP runs and each time died rather horribly somewhere. Instead I invested in more basic traits, like Finesse and Hellrunner. This seemed to help me a lot. I started to notice that Demons (and other monsters) weren't moving faster than me anymore. I guess that and the Tactical Boots probably helped in that regard. It also allowed me access to Dodgemaster, which also helped a lot. I may have died, but I certainly got much farther than I usually do on HMP.

I guess the moral of the story is that sometimes Master Traits aren't that awesome. Especially considering that MAD blocked certain traits like Hellrunner,
so if I would have gotten MAD, that would have meant no Dodgemaster as well as some other useful traits. I definitely learned that speed is the key on higher difficulty.
Hellrunner and Finesse do it to your movement and your shooting speed respectively. It was quite amazing to eliminate enemies quickly before some of them can react, as well as being able to move and dodge their shots. In my book I give this run a 8 out of 10.

[ZicherCZ]

Nice to see you making progress, and to see that you actually think about the game - with this approach, we will see you rising in ranks pretty quickly :).
One thing, though ...

"I could have used that Homing Phase Device I had to escape but who knows if it would have worked or put me in another dangerous situation"

Wrong thinking here. A HPD would work and would put you right on the stairs. The worst that could happen in your situation after using the HPD is that you would die anyway, and getting a chance of avoiding YASD instead of a certain YASD sounds like a good trade to me.
Use those consumables while you're alive - in the mortem file, they are worthless.

[LuckyDee]

Re: traits: I've never been a fan of MAD myself, exactly for the reasons you list, and I recently found out that master traits indeed aren't the be-all and end-all, although I must say I've seen MAD work miracles before - more so than MGK, at least.

Looking at your personal choice of traits, there's a couple of things that stand out: if you want to play for speed, which you clearly do, I'd say you'd fair better as a Scout, or even Tech (item use time + T mod, thanks Zicher), than as Marine. BAD was, contrary to what the abbreviation suggests, probably a good choice, but why not go for even more speed: taking JUG allows you to instantly swap between quick-keyed weapons - a MAJOR BUG if you ask me, but hey, it works - so if you keep a couple of loaded shotguns ready, you can fire them all without needing to reload.*
(Also, you had no weapon in your prepared slot. I believe it takes less time to swap to a prepared weapon than picking one from your inventory)
Lastly, the level of EE you took: for shotguns, this is pointless of course, although it would definitely help with the backup weapons you were carrying. Still, what made you choose it?

* Yes, you had a tactical shotgun, but without the armor piercing ability MAD confers, this gets inferior very quickly, even on HNTR. Have you considered something like an elephant gun?

This all may make me sound like a regular Mr. Know-It-All (and whatever rhymes with eloquent), but I nonetheless agree with Zicher: you're using your head, and it's getting you places, so you're doing great. I'm just curious about the stuff above, wondering whether you'd also taken this into account. Go get 'em, tiger!

[ZicherCZ]

(Also, you had no weapon in your prepared slot. I believe it takes less time to swap to a prepared weapon than picking one from your inventory)

For the sake of completeness, this is true - 0.8s for swapping vs 1.0s equipping. The difference may sound small, but it _can_ make a difference between a monster getting a shot at you and not getting one. Every speed boost helps.

[Sylph]

Juggler switch time a bug?!? Are you kidding! That's what makes it an actual skill worth taking! The quick switch alone is not nearly enough to justify a trait!

Oh, and I'd like to see the weapon switch time reduced a little. Maybe if finesse effected it or something.


Re: This mortem. I think you might be selling MAD short a little. It gets more and more significant as the game progresses! I personally don't like shotgun builds much (shotguns are m radar and my knockback tool, but never my main weapon), but if you go with them, I'd say going without MAD is brave, and I respect your experimentation with it - experimenting makes you get better fast in this game!
Are you using running mode much? With hellrunner, it's practically invulnerability, and you get 3-4 every level. I'm surprised you died to an arachnotron with that build, I assume you were already tired?

[LuckyDee]

Juggler switch time a bug?!? Are you kidding! That's what makes it an actual skill worth taking! The quick switch alone is not nearly enough to justify a trait!

I won't contradict you, but consider this:

[hijackingthisthread]
1) It only works for quick-keyed weapons, which is just a very small part of the entire scope, at least in the basic configuration
2) If you start changing the configuration, there's only so many keys you can bind - unless you could also use stuff like the ♪-key and ♀-key. It will only affect part of the full arsenal, which you as a player - well, not even a player, more like a programmer - have to decide upon before (each game).
3) In the current form, it should just work on the weapons you select from your inventory. It doesn't. If you have a shotgun in your inventory, there's actually different ways of equipping it which take different amounts of time; and last but not least
4) It's rediculous. Swapping from wielded to prepared weapon in 0.0s I understand. Swapping from wielded to prepared to RL to BFG to a knife in each hand in the same amount of time is just nuts.
[/hijackingthisthread]

So yeah, sounds like a really big bug to me.

As you were.

[Sylph]

Your first 3 points basically come down to the keybinding issue. I agree, it should just work with all weapons, and I don't like the fact that I have every weapon in the game bound to a shift+key combination to properly use juggler.

Your fourth point addresses realism. I don't find it any less realistic than an hour of combat training improving a marine to the point that they are able to fire 10 bullets from a pistol in the time that, an hour ago, they used to take one... With more accuracy, more damage, and using both hands (for 20 bullets total) no less. Ergo, outside of 'angel of humanity', the traits system isn't supposed to be realistic. It's just supposed to be balanced. :)

[LuckyDee]

You're right, of course; I'd already come up with the arguments you've listed shortly after my previous post. #4 isn't nowhere near reason enough to ditch it, but I think #123 should be addressed in the next version. Maybe my new found power will even allow me to have a stab at realizing it :)

[smgamer240]

Nice to see you making progress, and to see that you actually think about the game - with this approach, we will see you rising in ranks pretty quickly :).
One thing, though ...

"I could have used that Homing Phase Device I had to escape but who knows if it would have worked or put me in another dangerous situation"

Wrong thinking here. A HPD would work and would put you right on the stairs. The worst that could happen in your situation after using the HPD is that you would die anyway, and getting a chance of avoiding YASD instead of a certain YASD sounds like a good trade to me.
Use those consumables while you're alive - in the mortem file, they are worthless.

Yeah, I get what you mean. I guess the main thing I was worried about is that while the HPD would teleport me to the stairs, that there will be more monsters in that area that would probably get an attack in and finish me off before I can go down to the next level. Still, you've got a point. I guess I'll have to watch out in the future.

Re: traits: I've never been a fan of MAD myself, exactly for the reasons you list, and I recently found out that master traits indeed aren't the be-all and end-all, although I must say I've seen MAD work miracles before - more so than MGK, at least.

Looking at your personal choice of traits, there's a couple of things that stand out: if you want to play for speed, which you clearly do, I'd say you'd fair better as a Scout, or even Tech (item use time + T mod, thanks Zicher), than as Marine. BAD was, contrary to what the abbreviation suggests, probably a good choice, but why not go for even more speed: taking JUG allows you to instantly swap between quick-keyed weapons - a MAJOR BUG if you ask me, but hey, it works - so if you keep a couple of loaded shotguns ready, you can fire them all without needing to reload.* (Also, you had no weapon in your prepared slot. I believe it takes less time to swap to a prepared weapon than picking one from your inventory) Lastly, the level of EE you took: for shotguns, this is pointless of course, although it would definitely help with the backup weapons you were carrying. Still, what made you choose it?

* Yes, you had a tactical shotgun, but without the armor piercing ability MAD confers, this gets inferior very quickly, even on HNTR. Have you considered something like an elephant gun?

This all may make me sound like a regular Mr. Know-It-All (and whatever rhymes with eloquent), but I nonetheless agree with Zicher: you're using your head, and it's getting you places, so you're doing great. I'm just curious about the stuff above, wondering whether you'd also taken this into account. Go get 'em, tiger!

I think your right. A Scout or Technician probably would have been a better choice of class for me, as that's an extra +15% to movement speed on the former, and a free T-Mod and quick use on consumables for the latter. I'll probably go with either of the two for my next run.

As for MAD, on all my victorious runs (two of which that was on HNTR) I did use it. Although it's kind of weird, sometimes even with the armor piercing effect of the trait, it still took several shots to down moderately powerful monsters, like Barons and Mancubi. That's probably due to the limited range of the Shotgun, but it's just my take on it. MAD didn't seem effective at all on HMP, as I had several other failed runs on that difficulty level and for a while, MAD I always used.

I guess I took EE because I thought it might improve my accuracy a bit, but does it not really work well on Shotgun builds? I do know about the Elephant Gun. I usually go with that if I was unlucky and couldn't find a P and T Mod to put on a Combat Shotgun. I'll also think about that for my next run.

Oh, and you don't sound like a Mr. Know-It-All. I appreciate all the tips.

Re: This mortem. I think you might be selling MAD short a little. It gets more and more significant as the game progresses! I personally don't like shotgun builds much (shotguns are m radar and my knockback tool, but never my main weapon), but if you go with them, I'd say going without MAD is brave, and I respect your experimentation with it - experimenting makes you get better fast in this game! Are you using running mode much? With hellrunner, it's practically invulnerability, and you get 3-4 every level. I'm surprised you died to an arachnotron with that build, I assume you were already tired?

Maybe I am discrediting MAD, but as I said to LuckyDee, it didn't seem to be that effective to me, at least on HMP.  Thanks for the respect on my experimentations. Like I said in the OP, it did get me farther than I usually do on that difficulty level. I think I was in 'cautious' state upon meeting the Arachnotron but I guess I didn't think of going into 'running' mode. Thanks for that tip. I'll remember it for next time. I guess when you think you're in trouble, you have to consider all of your options. This is true in DoomRL and probably in every other rogue-like game out there.

[ZicherCZ]

As for MAD, on all my victorious runs (two of which that was on HNTR) I did use it. Although it's kind of weird, sometimes even with the armor piercing effect of the trait, it still took several shots to down moderately powerful monsters, like Barons and Mancubi. That's probably due to the limited range of the Shotgun, but it's just my take on it. MAD didn't seem effective at all on HMP, as I had several other failed runs on that difficulty level and for a while, MAD I always used.

I guess I took EE because I thought it might improve my accuracy a bit, but does it not really work well on Shotgun builds? I do know about the Elephant Gun. I usually go with that if I was unlucky and couldn't find a P and T Mod to put on a Combat Shotgun. I'll also think about that for my next run.

Well, of course, it still takes several shots to down Barons or Mancubi - but when you factor in the damage dropoff and the double armor application for shrapnel damage, the result, in my experience, averages around three or four shots less needed to down them with MAD then without it. This difference tends to add up over time considerably, both in time needed to kill and in ammo consumption. Of course, if you don't feel like taking MAD, then by all means don't - but IMHO, you may try a Scout and go for Shottyhead instead, it just might suit you better.

EE is completely useless on pure shotgun builds, as shotguns are not affected by accuracy at all - check the Wiki for details, if you wish. However, it does help the missile launcher and the plasma rifle you had in your inventory, so if you were using those with at least some regularity, it could still be a valid choice. Never take it on AoSh though :).

[LuckyDee]

EE is completely useless on pure shotgun builds, as shotguns are not affected by accuracy at all - check the Wiki for details, if you wish. However, it does help the missile launcher and the plasma rifle you had in your inventory, so if you were using those with at least some regularity, it could still be a valid choice. Never take it on AoSh though :).

To clarify: shotguns work with an area of effect, and anything in them gets hit automatically. The farther the target is from the gun's barrel, the less damage it takes. Find the page Zicher's referring to here. Due to the damage drop-off at longer range plus the fact that armor counts double against shrapnel damage, you'll always need more than one shot to take out the tougher guys: for example a normal shotgun fired at a Baron on an adjacent tile does a max damage of 24. A Baron has armor 2, so that results in 24-2*2 = 20 damage dealt, and it has 60 HP, so in the most beneficial scenario you'll need 3 shots to kill it.

I guess when you think you're in trouble, you have to consider all of your options.

This insight is golden. I still keep making this mistake a lot, but it's getting better. Whenever in doubt, pause. Take a moment to review the situation and your options. It's more help than you'd believe at first glance.