Print

Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[RepoRipper]

ok heres the logic: bfgs, RLs, and plasma rifles are too heavy to be held in only hand, chainsaw requires both hands to keep from slicing off your own legs, *FISTS*????? ur ALREADY punching with both hands!, as for shotguns, the recoil will blow it right outa your hands if you havent got a firm grip! the LS is a unique item: you can only aqquire it ONCE. if u have two, ur messing with the programming code. Chainguns are classically double held (look at Wolfenstein illustrations, he stands in a doorway with twin chainguns!), and most of a chainguns real weight is from all the bullets loaded into it! they are also some of the only weapons in the world with little or no recoil, because the revolving barrel converts it into centrifical force, throwing it directly away from the center of the barrel. as for the downsides, thats 10 turns to unload both guns, ie an entire stack of bullets. yeah. unless ur playing my Arena of Carnage, why are u carrying more than 3 stacks of ammo. then u gotta remember that late in the game, 10mm ammo is almost as scarce as shotgun shells!

[Supernaut]

Dunno about plasma rifles, though - US army didnt give any info about recoil and how the weapon fires. Too bad.

Doom has a kind of pseudo realism, so babbling into details like how much recoil which weapon had seems pointless.

Chainguns would anyway weight tons, probably because you carry so much ammo ´on your torso.

[TFoN]

Vulcans/miniguns/chainguns don't have recoil...? Are you sure about this? Anyway, they still require two hands to manage - one for fire and one for support, since it doesn't use a conventional trigger (which would mean having the entire thing supported by one hand, likely on a bad angle), but more of a lever. Kind of like a chainsaw, come to think of it.

But who cares? It's a nonsensical game. Do you feel like discussing why you can take shitloads of damage even before healing, often taking out a couple of AVs, High Bastards of Hell, without needing a medkit? Or how come a pistol takes up as much space as 10 rockets or a BFG...? Why Arachs, walking brains, don't plan better attacks and keep walking in lava? Or why you never pee your pants?!

[BDR]

unless ur playing my Arena of Carnage, why are u carrying more than 3 stacks of ammo. then u gotta remember that late in the game, 10mm ammo is almost as scarce as shotgun shells!

What the fark?  That second reason is EXACTLY why you carry more than 3 stacks of 10mm ammo around if you're primarily using a pistol/chaingun (especially in Angel of Marksmanship)!  If you can kill the hellspawn fast enough you don't need a lot of extra medkits, and if you're playing AoMr, when you run out of 10mm ammo you are pretty well and truly screwed unless you can find more before the remaining enemies come for you.

[RepoRipper]

ok BDR, it is IMPLIED that AoM is an exeption, and as for how much u carry, i happen to have tossed my chaingun at lvl 18/19/20, because i was picking up so much plasma, and i still had my ARL. point is, especially if the level range is increased, you will be finding yourself severely needing those 3 or 4 10mm ammo slots DESPERATELY by midgame

[TFoN]

I usually make it out of the game with a few hundred 10mm ammo left, but sooner or later I'll have a low point, usually somewhere between mid- and late-game, where I'll have to rely on my RL and pick up a SG so I can put shells to use. That's also why I'll sometimes carry a DblSG around, even if I'd already dropped all my shells.

[RepoRipper]

interesting...

OH hey. i just remembered! i came up with (yet ANOTHER of my many many ideas and imaginings) a new weapon! i actually came up with it for real life use, but.... its a shotgun! actually i named it the Thundercracker! anyway, its basically a triple-barrel, belt-fed, pump-action shotgun firing HE Shotgun shells!
OUCH!!! thats the one i came up with, but for this Shotgun challenge, this could be the special weapon, works like a combat shotgun, with load on move, holds 30 shells at once, fired 3 at a time, but firing takes as long as a shotgun to fire, (no double shotgun effect, as in taking 2 or 3 times as long to fire as normal) but warning, the shottyman trait only loads 3 shells at a time!

[TFoN]

I think a core assumption in the word "challenge" is that it will be *hard*. There is no doubt in my mind that this will be *way* to powerful, cutting most things down in one shot, on a regular basis. A Shottyman challenge should be a way to make at least one SG-only game compulsory, not to make at least one type of SG game alien to the rest of DoomRL and grossly unbalanced.


As for this weapon in real life, it doesn't seem useful, IMUneducatedO. HE rounds seem to me too high a risk to make this worth while, as there are weapons that will cause enough damage, and almost certainly won't blow-up in your hands. Without those, I doubt it'll breach anything a shotgun can't, and then, what's the point? Just take an elephant hunting rifle, instead. You want a repeater? Pancor Jackhammer is an example of one, and they aren't used. Other CmbtSGs are used, and therefore don't need to be reinvented :)

[RepoRipper]

ok in the game, its not as powerful at a distance, though still more powerful than a normal shotgun, or even a Double shotgun (minumum damage, of course!). at point-blank range, though, its basically a BFG on steroids! but remember, once the triple 10-shell belts are fired, reloading the belts takes 3x as long as a double shotgun, or 6x as long as a normal shotgun. and there are no "versions" of this to reload faster! the worst nightmare of a player using this is 3 or 4 Pain Ele's spawning lost souls every other turn! no way to run, and any chance of dispersal is nullified by the fact that most of it will hit whoevers closest, and that which doesnt isnt gonna hurt those sheer numbers! a normal player, facing that, pulls out his trusty BFG, and they ALL die. our shotgun guy is dead. period. even 1 PE can screw him over. and so can AVs if they have anyone between you and them. the cyberdemon isnt a pushover, either, cuz his armor takes the brunt of the HE part off, and even if you can get right in front of him... well... he may be huge, but hes not a fatso. at least a quarter of the pieces will end up missing, or going between his legs!

as for real life, its designed to be used by explosives specialists (they already have explosive stuff on them, and HE shotgun shells arent very explosive compared to anything else except gunpowder!) as a field weapon. why? at point blank, the Thundercracker can probably deliver almost as much force as an AT rocket! in other words, it will quite likely blow a hole in tank armor! and its easyier and faster to use than plastic explosives or C4, and shotgun shells dont get unstable and blow up because some clumsy oaf drops them!

[TFoN]

First of all, what I wrote about HEIAP in shotguns goes here too - there's no longer a spread, as far as I understood it, making it a very different kind of weapon. In this case, it's mostly a 1-target hand-cannon. Nice, but not a shotgun.

Second, the idea of a Shottyman challenge is still to enforce mandatory use of a *standard* SG path. At most, circumstances are balanced by giving you a good SG - but it will still be the *standard* good SG. Otherwise, it's not a Shottyman challenge, it's a New, Otherwise Unattainable Weapon challenge.
The disadvantages you propose only serve to unbalance it further (though I'm not sure why you can't simply only reload one barrel), as you'll "sometimes kill everything, sometimes just die".

[RepoRipper]

first point, u misunderstood, i explained in the other thread why.

second, ok i get it, in that case it should be a special prize in a tough secret level. on that note, i came up with a secret level, Shotgun Alley, where hordes of sergeants move around, with all the walls being doors, both locked and unlocked!

[RepoRipper]

OH WOW! i decided to be a shotgunner for my AoLT bout, just got Shottyman! AWESOME DOUBLE SHOTGUN!!! now if only i could find an advanced one! i also have Int (3) and am going to go for hellwreaker rampage! "hello my Pain Elemental freinds, allow me to introduce you to my newest..." (note, AWESOME EXP TO GAIN THIS WAY!) any specific traits you would recommend? for a shotgunner? i also carry a plasma rifle for arachs and archviles.

[TFoN]

Putting such a weapon in a special level's even worse: you have all of its advantages, and can simply swap to another weapon when the disadvantages kick in.

Also, compare it with the LS. The moment such a weapon's found, a balance nightmare commences. The "advantage" of the LS's that it requires a melee game to access, which most games don't follow. You'd have to come up with some really good limitation for accessing (and using) this weapon for it to not break down the balance of the entire game.


AFAIR PA-spawned Lost Souls don't give XP.

[arch_8ngel]

I'm not sure where somebody got the idea of a zero-recoil chaingun...

The autocannon on an A-10 produces a 12,000 lb recoil (with a 30mm round)
Scale that down to the GE minigun (0.223 calibur) or a Bushmaster (0.30 calibur) and you're at least talking about the equivalent of an M-16.

The barrels don't spin because of force transfer -- they spin because they're driven by an electric motor.
If the battery dies, so goes the gun's ability to fire continuously.

Needless to say, I doubt anyone ever fired a minigun one handed (the miniguns used in T2 and Predator are actually real and fire real bullets...it's the only way to make the muzzle blast look right on film).  The guys in Wolfenstien were giant supermutants that were engineered with the guns built into their bodies.  BJ Blaskowitz had to 2-hand the sucker.

Anyway, I just thought the recoil comment was absurd and needed some rebuttle...

[RepoRipper]

oh..... ty for correcting that misguided idea.
but seriously, it makes sense to use spinning force-transfer.

on the note of Recoil, i have a weapon idea (Real Life) for a rfle with a stopper on the end, fires a cartridge. the cartridge slams into the stopper, and the contents of the cartridge blast through the thinner lid. the contents are a liquid chemical that ignites upon contact with oxygen. ie think "Greek Fire" only if u put it out, it immediately ignites again. as soon as it touches oxygen. ie, a flaming liquid bullet! that Splashes!