DRL > Discussion
Doom, id, and copyright issues
MadCoder:
Wow Kornel, I hadn't considered that! I didn't think about Alien Breed not being part of the Aliens Franchise. So maybe we can look forward to that DoomRL after all...
My suggested Aliens flamethower upgrade: The Fireball Launcher! It deploys Medium ranged fireballs made of FleroGel (tm) that splatters everthing in it's bursting radius. Similar in effect to Rocket Launchers, but the burning continues turn after turn. Eventually, the FleroGel burns out, but it's effects cannot be stopped by entering water. (Perhaps by a special anti-FleroGel spray?)
Sorry, got off-topic!
If you don't want to code AliensRL, maybe I could...hmm...find the time to code it myself?
BDR:
--- Quote from: Gamera on February 07, 2007, 05:38 ---DoomRL uses copyright protected sounds and trademark protected logos and names. The ascii art in descriptions probably counts as derivative works too. If ID wished they could enforce their rights and send Kornel a cease & desist. They could try suing for damages but I doubt a judge would find that any losses were incurred by the violations.
--- End quote ---
There is a thing within copyright law called fair use, however, and while DoomRL wouldn't really fall under any of the reasons for being considered fair usage I would think it also is not an overall offender in terms of the four areas set out in the link above (Purpose and character: neither educational nor profit; nature of the copyrighted work: both games, but very different types of games; amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work: sound and music individual copyrights would be violated in full, but that's the full extent of uncontroversial violations (I doubt the images both in descriptions and in-game would be considered infringing, for example); and the effect of the use on the potential market for and/or value of the work (I find the chance that it would be large enough to be seriously infringing highly unlikely).
As for the trademark issue, I found this and it seems that the big thing for infringing there is not confusing people on who owns the trademark. In the slightly expanded description of what constitutes as a 'nominative use', they mention three things that a person using the trademark in their (writing, but this can be expanded to DoomRL) work has to do to prove they're not breaking the law: 1. The product can't be easily identifiable without the trademark; 2. The user only puts enough of the trademark in the work to identify the product as reasonably necessary; and 3. The user doesn't do anything that would suggest (while using the trademark) endorsement or sponsorship by the trademark owner. #1 is pretty reasonably done IMO, and #3 seems pretty well satisfied (there's no claim made anywhere in the game that id had anything to do with this aside from inspiring it that I've seen). That leaves #2, which toes the line depending on what parts of the game are actually trademarked (if it's just the name that's trademarked, then I would think Kornel's all right; and I think the rest would fall under copyright law, but I can't be sure).
In the end, I've gotta agree with one thing, though (found on the copyright page, which it seems like Kornel's more potentially infringing on anyway): It may be best just to ask id about it and get their blessing (AFAIK, they haven't quite gone down the complete-craphole yet like some [*cough* EA, Sony] companies have, so they should be fine with it).
--- Quote from: Gamera on February 07, 2007, 05:38 ---Wolfenstein 3D doesn't have copyright issues with Doom because it was made by the same people and it predates Doom and it doesn't share any intellectual property anyway -_-
--- End quote ---
You're right, bad example. Really, I was reaching for an easy illustration, but I could just as easily have said Duke Nukem. As for sharing intellectual property, see above.
MadCoder:
--- Quote from: BDR ---It may be best just to ask id about it and get their blessing (AFAIK, they haven't quite gone down the complete-craphole yet like some [*cough* EA, Sony] companies have, so they should be fine with it).
--- End quote ---
I disagree and agree.
I disagree that Kornel should ask for their blessing. I would hate for id to say, "huh, look at that, their infringing on our trademark," then decide to take legal action. The game might (partly) go down in flames due to my first post on the board! Besides, I think they have seen the game already, how could they not? It's been in gamer mags and online articles all over. They probably haven't said anything for legal reasons. If John Carmack sent a letter that said, "You did a great job with DoomRL," he would effectively be giving approval of the production, which would practically give Kornel permisssion to do what he wants. Id has probably seen it, maybe played it, and possibly want to say it's great, but cannot for legal reasons.
I would agree, however, that the companies you mention (EA, Sony) do suck! It seems all their games are just rehashed old school titles, with fancy graphics, sounds and music added. Thats why a game like DoomRL can be so popular. It throws game components together in a way that defies traditional corporate gamemaking, and gives us all something so different that it screams "play me!" This definition of corporate policy is further proven through id's recent actions with DoomRPG for the cell phones. Even though I haven't played it (only because my cell phone doesn't support it), Carmack is still thinking of innovative ways to create games. He has the power to do that, while most corporations don't.
Either way, I think John would give his support - he was once an indie developer himself!
Almafeta:
--- Quote from: BDR on February 08, 2007, 12:37 ---There is a thing within copyright law called fair use
--- End quote ---
"Fair use" is unique concept to American law, and is very limited. Unless Kornel is living in the US, he's violating the copyright law wherever he lives. Even if he does live in the US, in taking "donations" for his work, he's pretty much negating any chance of a fair-use defense if id decides to sue him.
MadCoder:
Unless he could prove that he has only made enough to cover site costs, maint, etc.
Then maybe there is a chance - but I'm not a lawyer, so who knows?
Either way, nobody email id about DoomRL! Don't want the party stopping already!
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