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Author Topic: 3D in roguelike  (Read 13059 times)

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3D in roguelike
« on: February 17, 2007, 10:36 »

Hello,

I know that this place if full of roguelike developper who like/have different ideas. If I am right Kornel wrote a few articles about 3D in roguelike.

Here is the little, crappy test I wrote after a reading the posts on the Dwarf Fortress forum. It is not a game, but just a viewer for a 3D scene.

If you are curious, you can read the post there : http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000773.

Well, I am not telling that it is wonderfull (which would be wrong...). But some might be interrested in looking at that.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 11:42 »

GenRogue had a semi 3D world since the Valkyrie Chaos 3 version... I think I have some screenshots lying around...

Yeah, I reuploaded them. These ones I posted on RGRD, they're from a older version (Valkyrie Reloaded Delta):
http://chaosforge.org/rgrd/
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at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2007, 13:52 »

Mmm.... GenRogue. Those screenies give me hope for the game!
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Anticheese

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2007, 01:20 »

Hey, here's hoping it can get out before Duke Nukem Forever :)

Castlevania RL has a 3D system thats sort of what Kornel outlines..I don't know the link offhand but I'm sure a link will pop up soon.
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Adral

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2007, 05:05 »

Ask the Emperor and thou shalt be provided.

Castlevania RL has a 3D system thats sort of what Kornel outlines..I don't know the link offhand but I'm sure a link will pop up soon.

http://www.santiagoz.com/web/page.php?2 for screenshots.
http://www.santiagoz.com/web/download.php?list.4 for latest version.

By the way, Genrogue's looking really good. Are you planning to continue its development?
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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2007, 16:58 »

Yep, maybe semi-3D suits better to roguelikes than real one (The kind I showed in my demonstration...). I'll have a look at CastelvaniaRL.

But, well, maybe I'll try to develop a little more that idea... Once I'll have finished my other, more consistant project (stuff with gravity fields, solar wind, probes and space exploration). Pffiou, so many ideas, so little time !
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Santiago Zapata

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2007, 19:03 »

Also take a look at metroidRL, it may show 2.5D better from the start (you have to jump to get into cliffs, etc.)
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Slash (Castlevania, Metroid, Drash, ZeldaRL)
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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2007, 01:33 »

didn't read all of the posts (sry)

but heres Gearhead http://www.geocities.com/pyrrho12/programming/gearhead/
its a pretty interesting RL typish game but with 2D graphics..
while Gearhead2 uses openGL.... all 3d but craplike..but thats just my opinion.
I still prefer the 2Dness of 1st gearhead since its more refined then its 3D version but lacks certain features. but idk.

enjoy.
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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 14:23 »

Cyberpunk roguelike project
http://mazecrawl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3

Not a "genuine" 3D but some attempt to create "multilevel environment in 2d world". As the author explained, the player would be able to interact with upper and lower levels of the world (for example, to fire
at upper levels while staying on the ground).
 
Unfortunately, the project is only in "design state" ((
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mulander

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2007, 19:17 »

real 3D roguelikes:
Egoboo
SoulFu
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arch_8ngel

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2007, 07:14 »

I haven't tried Egoboo yet, but SoulFu left a little something to be desired...
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Newts Revenge

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2007, 15:12 »

Is this thread about roguelikes with 2D world and 3D graphics, or roguelikes with 2.5 or 3D world and 2D graphics, or 3D world and 3D graphics like SoulFU? :)

IMHO SoulFu isn't a roguelike, it's in realtime and it's very graphical. Roguelikes should work with or without graphics! :) I also found SoulFu to be completely unplayable without a joypad so I didn't get very far :( Very nice graphics, though.

For a 2D world and 3D graphics, I think the Dungeon Master style of first-person pseudo-3D could work well, but would need at least an 8-way view instead of a 4-way view so that the player could see things diagonally from their position. Turning should probably take zero time as well, to avoid disadvantaging the player for using this view instead of a standard top-down view.

For a 2.5 or 3D world and 2D graphics, how about "look up" and "look down" controls that raise or lower the view plane on the y axis? To make it less tedious to constantly scroll the view up and down, you could also try to show the next highest thing above the current view level if there is only solid wall at the current level, and the next lower thing below the current view level if there is only empty space at the current level, if that makes any sense. To make it less confusing, colours should be used too - e.g. anything above the current view plane shown in yellow, and anything below in blue. So if the tile next to the player's position is blue, then they know there is a drop there, and if it is yellow, they know they have to jump or climb to get there.

I'd try and construct an example of what I mean, but it's damn difficult without being able to use fixed-width text and colours at the same time :/

Here's an example of the monochrome version, which only shows the level you're currently looking at to avoid confusion. The example is a room with 3 overlapping levels. On the middle level (where the player is) there is a pit on the eastern side of the room and an alcove underneath the raised section to the south:

Code: [Select]
View at current level:

##########
#........#
#...@..  #
#......  #
#........#
####..####
   #..#
   ####



View at one level down:


      ########
    @ #......#
      #......#
      ########






View at one level up:

##########
#        #
#    @   #
#        #
#        #
#........#
#........#
#........#
#........#
##########

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arch_8ngel

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2007, 18:15 »

I was being polite... SoulFu is not a roguelike.

 And don't worry, it's unplayable WITH a joystick as well, so you didn't miss much.


I think you have an interesting idea, but it might be a little tough to implement
with ASCII alone.  I could see that working with tiles because you would have
unlimited coloring and shading options to make lower levels stand out and higher
levels cast shadows accordingly.  You might be able to do something similar with
the ASCII graphics alone, but it might not be quite as obvious while playing.

I think you're on to something though.
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Adral

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2007, 04:50 »

All this "fake 3d" as in 2.5D already exists in CastlevaniaRL. You might want to give it a try. In Petra, the town, there is this feature already.
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zaimoni

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Re: 3D in roguelike
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2007, 17:34 »

As long as you don't use thin walls (big restriction), a roguelike and a turn-based XCOM-like can use the same internal datastructures data structures.  Switching level view is what works in XCOM-likes, and I think (with some explicit "blind-adapting" features like an "all monsters visible" list) that it would work in the roguelike display mode as well.
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