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Author Topic: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions  (Read 26685 times)

Thiebs

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2014, 11:03 »

That makes a lot of sense, and I do remember a distinct feeling of 'not this again!', so it's pretty likely that's what happened to me.
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Sylph

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2014, 13:47 »

Oh, and to return to the rewards: Deimos Lab cache contains one more rare mod over Armory. Then again, it also contains one more Shambler over Armory ...
Unless you clear the armoury damageless. :)
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Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 01:33 »

Well, I got the armory in all 3 of my games and cleared it each time, the room that opens up after I kill the shambler never had a rare mod, it's always 2 common mod and 1 schematic...I'm guessing the schematic is the one rare mod once I've "learned" all the mod schematics.

I'm in my 4th game now, and got Deimos lab for the first time, just cleared it and got a sniper mod!....I didn't get a 2nd mod though, and no mod schematic. It had 2 common mods before the shamblers, 2 exotic weapons before as well (Another translocator though, sigh...and a laser rifle!!...well except I am deliberately NOT playing a rapid fire gun build this game since that's what I used in my last 2... doh!).

I got exotic armor though! Cybernetic armor!...oh wait.. that's another bust. *runs away crying*. Oh well, hopefully I'll make good use of my sniper mod at some point, I'm trying gun kata for the first time though and don't really wanna use it on a regular pistol just yet. They seem to get the job done fine and I don't need the accuracy just yet, and if a Clerica whatever drops and I used my sniper mod already I'll cry.

Note I didn't know you get bonuses for clearing stuff without taking a hit, is this armory only? How do you reliably never take a hit from shamblers anyway? I know you can kinda sorta avoid taking hits most of hte time by not moving and just letting it teleport around while you just sidestep back and forth around an area with lots of cover but... well, sometimes they just decide to keep moving towards me and then I got myself either backed into a corner, or with no where to go but directly away (killing the ability to dodge perpendicularly.

I guess maybe if I make a hole in a couple of the rooms...somehow I don't think that's what other people do though.

edit: Oh god, thank god for laser gun, my pistols do nothing against revenants =P.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 01:41 by Ghaleon »
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Sylph

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 04:56 »

Sniper mod is pretty bad really. I like finding it on a shotgun build or on nightmare for a plasma shotgun, but other than that I only really think it's worth it on an ammochain character. Same goes for cybernetic armour! You were unlucky with those drops!
As for clearing the armoury damageless: is something I've never really tried. Sounds like a fun pet project if you're up to it!
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ZicherCZ

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 06:27 »

Clearing the Armory damageless is not as hard as it sounds, especially on HNTR, I've done it with a shotgun build. It's all about staying in the starting part of the level and a heavy use of cornershooting. All monsters (besides lost souls, which are one-hit-kil with a shotgun) will come to you through the central corridor. Just autowait for them.
Against Shambler then, it's also about cornershooting (preferably with a double/super shotgun) and a bit of luck so he doesn't teleport next to you.
Higher difficulties render this strategy much more difficult due to cacos being added to the mix.
Deimos Lab, on the other hand, seems almost impossible to do damageless to me - two Shamblers and the cover-depraved layout of the central chamber makes the final battle a much more daunting task.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2014, 09:52 »

@Ghaleon: Well, like I said earlier, it looks like you won't find your questions going unanswered. I think it's time to take this to the next level and start showing us a mortem or two...
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Sylph

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2014, 15:25 »

Deimos Lab, on the other hand, seems almost impossible to do damageless to me - two Shamblers and the cover-depraved layout of the central chamber makes the final battle a much more daunting task.
The cover situation isn't as bad as all that, provided you don't break open all the destructible crates until after you've finished the shamblers!
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Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2014, 18:58 »

@Ghaleon: Well, like I said earlier, it looks like you won't find your questions going unanswered. I think it's time to take this to the next level and start showing us a mortem or two...

I'll give you my most recent victory...and my most recent shameful defeat (Military base of all things, I was near the end where you get the mod, large health orb, combat shotgun and whatever, and there was nothing left but an elite captain. I had 50% health left, and never, have I ever seen elite captains pose any threat whatsoever... AND he was really far away, so I just carelessly reloaded knowing he might move and shoot me during that time (I didn't have reloader and I was dual gunning so reloading takes awhile).. but no matter, I had green armor, they only use peashooter miniguns, and he was far away, he'd miss most of the time, and when he didn't. I had 25% bullet resist right?

WELL HE HAD A LAZOR GUN MOFO *pewpewpew* *dies instantly*...

I didn't know they sometimes carted around laser guns... *cries*..

anyway, I'll post em up here as soon as I figure out HOW... reading the post mortem forum rules and it's all in imp scratch.

edit:
Here the are (they don't have to be int he mortem subforum if I'm not trying to show em off or anything do they?

Note it looks like I had a bunch of failed games, yeah I failed some, but most of those fails are at like floor 1 me just goofing around experimenting with dodging and stuff, not to mention a few caused by me not understanding how cover worked (grr at that newbie guide was so misleading when it had no pictures working!).

and I had like 3 deaths caused by me trying the 100 floor challenge, and spawning RIGHT NEXT TO like effing 2 hungry demons in the open with no doors to hide behind or barrels to save me right in the first room. how dumb is that... is there anything you can do about that?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And my shameful death

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 19:19 by Ghaleon »
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LuckyDee

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2014, 23:14 »

Well, there you have another important lesson: just don't reload when in plain sight of something :) If you run for cover it'll chase you anyway.

Here the are (they don't have to be int he mortem subforum if I'm not trying to show em off or anything do they?

I was actually trying to encourage you to move away from this topic and into uncharted territory, but that's alright. Mortems in other discussions are just fine if they serve to illustrate a point, otherwise if it's worth posting it's worth posting on the mortem board.

Note it looks like I had a bunch of failed games, yeah I failed some, but most of those fails are at like floor 1 me just goofing around experimenting with dodging and stuff, not to mention a few caused by me not understanding how cover worked (grr at that newbie guide was so misleading when it had no pictures working!).

Pah, just have a look at the win/loss ratio under most mortems. This game expects you to die. A lot. Really. A lot.


and I had like 3 deaths caused by me trying the 100 floor challenge, and spawning RIGHT NEXT TO like effing 2 hungry demons in the open with no doors to hide behind or barrels to save me right in the first room. how dumb is that... is there anything you can do about that?

Run like Hell the wind. Unless you can take em out right away (there's always a slight delay at the start of a level before the enemies begin to move), retreat. This may well take you out of the frying pan and into the fire, but hey... living on the edge!
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ZicherCZ

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2014, 23:31 »

WELL HE HAD A LAZOR GUN MOFO *pewpewpew* *dies instantly*...
Just wait until you meet elite former _commandos_ ...
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Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2014, 00:25 »

Quote
I was actually trying to encourage you to move away from this topic and into uncharted territory, but that's alright. Mortems in other discussions are just fine if they serve to illustrate a point, otherwise if it's worth posting it's worth posting on the mortem board.

I'm sorry, I don't understand... is there some forum etiquette thing I'm breaking here? Am I spamming the thread too much? I ask questions alot because I like learning but if people are tired of reading you need not answer, I wont be upset? Seriously I have no clue what you mean by this. I HAVE checked some of the other threads and such but the more I read, the more questions I get =P

One last question, I know HMP is considered the game's version of "hard", and HNTR is "normal"...But, I still feel wussy for not playing UV or N! yet, so angel challenge + HMP seems like a nice middle ground. But sometimes it feels like there's just no way to solve a situation with my self imposed challenge on HMP (I'll go into that further). What difficulty would a "vet" play these angel challenges on provided they are kind of ALMOST able to Clear N! (without any angel challenges), but not quite, and are keep on trying at it? That's kind of the bar I want to be at atm.

anyway...
Died again, was doing good too, was doing HRP marksman medal. Incidently, it's kind of a shame that containment area doesn't give you alternative means of getting that backpack if you lack rockets (I'm not even allowed to use em so blah). I mean it seems that the arena was "smart" enough to give me a mod instead of a rocket launcher, so why aren't containment area/the wall smart enough to put stairs on the other side and give you a homing phase thing or something. Oh well.

I got the alternative to the armory again (forgot what it was called), the double shamblers were actually pretty simple, and i was still just using 2 ordinary joe pistols, well one was a speedloader (people say speedloader is useless for gunkata, and I understand the theory why, but I find sometimes 6 rounds is just not enough for 2 ordinary pistols to take out barons of hell at long distance, and DEFINITELY not revenants...(and of course bosses). Anyway I could have made a high power pistol but one of those and 1 speedloader just makes no sense, and I was waiting for the armory to see if I would get some sweet drops first...which I did. Combat pistol! I immediately made it into a high power combat pistol, which kinda makes a good combo with the speedloader. Make the speedloader your primary, and if 6 shots isn't enough (which it often is with a high power combat on the side), you only need reload the speedloader, and you got 4 more high power dual shots.

Anyway, I was cleaning house (or hell), when that dungeon came up... you know... that one. The one I KNEW would be a VERY bad Idea for a pistol-only character to attempt. But I thought to myself, part of roguelikes is getting killed learning stuff right? Let's see HOW bad an idea it is to attempt it! I thought I een had a chance because I could dish out some great damage on the agony elemental pretty quick, and once she meatshields with lost souls, I had like 10 health kits (I normally don't carry that many but this was part of my plan) to use in conjunction with the arena masters staff. I know they resist fire alot, but they are so squishy, and they are so packed, I figure the aoe from each other would smoke em in one or two shots a go anyway.

Anyway, I got trapped in there obviously, got swarmed, put up a good fight (took like 5 uses of the staff to kill anything!), even KILLED the agony elemental! And she dropped, oh god please be a fire skull to nuke these suckers!...FIRE SKULL (I didn't know lost souls leave no corpses, I thought they left dust along with the blood or something qq)..used it...saw absolutely nothing happen (even the agony elemental didn't blow up, whyyy!?), and got munched on to death... *sobs*.

anyway
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I died alot since before this game, had many many many bad games cuz of the arena.. being stuck using pistols only in the arena when you don't even have dual gunner yet is awful. Wallshooting works great and all...except like effing 5 games in a row I'd have to deal with 2 demons and a cacodemon or two at the same darn time in there (which is near impossible when you have nothing but a trusty old pistol, sometimes not even armor. Running away from demons only gives me like 3 squares of distance after the full duration of the run that early in the game since I don't have hellrunner yet, and even if I got hellrunner, I'd have to lose son of a gun in a pistol only challenge, which would probably be flat out lunacy).

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thelaptop

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2014, 00:28 »

Pah, just have a look at the win/loss ratio under most mortems. This game expects you to die. A lot. Really. A lot.
You've played only 20 games.  This is not Call of Duty, hell, this is not even Duke Nukem Forever.  Rogue-like means that you will die a lot, and we won't even bat an eyelid to that.  Hell, if it were some avoidable type of death, we might even laugh at you.

I've noticed you like to cry a lot with each post.  Here's a tip:

Less QQ, more pew pew.

I think Tormuse once said someone told him that he deserved to die in DoomRL.  See where that has got him now?

Also, stop theorising, just get out there and play more games.  HMP is a nice comfortable difficulty to get used to before venturing on to crazier things in UV and N!.  The mechanics of DoomRL are extremely straightforward compared to many rogue-likes out there, and you can figure out most of them soon enough without breaking into much of a sweat.

Post your thoughts once you've gotten at least 200 games under your belt.  Then come back to this old thread and see how you have changed your perspective.  You might even appreciate what I'm saying here too.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2014, 01:23 »

...stuff...

What thelaptop said, but less bluntly put: you’ll find a lot of your questions answered by simply playing more. Not only that, you’re going to need the experience in order to get a feel of the game, your traits, your enemies, etc. Of course you’re always allowed to ask your questions if you can’t seem to find a satisfying answer to them yourself – I know I do – but in most cases nothing beats firsthand experience.

And again, yeah, you’ll die a lot, you’ll be confronted with nasty situations a lot, and before the month is through there’ll be a worn out spot on your desk from smashing your face into it. Savor those moments. They’re the best you can get in terms finding stuff out.
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ZicherCZ

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2014, 01:33 »

...a rather long post ...
You try to learn, which is all good and fine, but you really seem to complain a bit over the top. I kinda have to agree with thelaptop - even if he might have been a bit too harsh on you, he's very right in the fact that roguelikes are not "live and learn", but more like "die and learn".

Anyway, to your questions:

Yes, sometimes there is no viable solution to a given situation. If you picked up Marksman challenge, then complaining about having to use only pistols is not going to earn much credit here. Don't expect the game to help you with challenges.
As for the Arena - the rewards for completing it are always challenge-specific. And being difficult pistols-only? Well sure. Remember, you _don't_ have to even enter the Arena, and there is a reason why it earns you a special badge when completed on UV AoMr.
As for the Wall / Containment Area: Again, no reason to enter these levels at all if you have no means to get through. And again, clearing these levels on AoMr grants you an extra badge - but it requires either luck or some creative thinking on your part.
City of Skulls is a bad bad idea on AoMr pretty much all the time. Arena Master's Staff is not a good idea at all against lost souls with their fire resistance. And you learned the hard way that skulls need corpses to be effective at all.

One final advice: Try different challenges and different character builds. Angel of Shotgunnery, for instance, gives a much easier early game then AoMr.
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Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2014, 02:10 »

It seems I need to clarify some things. I'm not actually whining (and certainly not crying) whenever I *cries* or qq or whatever. I just enjoy my videogames with a certain dramatic flair =P. I mean I'm not a hardcore roleplayer in games that aren't rpgs (I don't even play on rpg servers when they are an option for an mmo or whatever), but if some friend of mine or something kills me in a game, I'll probably exclaim what a monster they are and how I'll get them, or comment on how my character's innocent children are nor orphans, or whatever. Please do not misinterprit my dramtic lamentations for me being actually upset, even to the slightest extent.

As for complaining about marksmanship badge in containment area not being able to blow up the walls (I know you probably can by moding your pistols with explosive ammunition or something but that requires great mod luck and such). That wasn't a complaint in the sense of "that's stupid, blah blah", just more like an observation of inconsistencies (arena adjusts itself to challenges, so I merely noticed that it seems others like containment are overlooked). Plus I was actually praising my lucky stars for getting that juicy combat pistol, and admitted that even attempting the agony elemental with my build/challenge was a bad idea, but figured it would be fun trying it anyway.

Anyway, I have questions that if you do not feel like answering, I wont pester anyone by asking again and again the same question. It' snot that I'm lazy and am scared to experiment (trust me I'm not), I just fancy myself as capable of learning both ways. I find it kind of sad that people who learn best via hands-on experience think the whole world must be like them and also learn best hands on...other people learn best with theory. I'm greedy and I wanna learn both ways as fast as possible whatever is more convenient! that's just who I am, I'm happy with either as they come. But please don't go telling me that one way is correct or not. If you do not want to share some information (like I know is the case for dragonslayer sword mechanics and such), I'll respect those wishes.

Anyway, I do not intend to annoy or pester anyone here with questions, but since it's made obvious that they are seen as such I'll stop...I was just as chatty as I was earlier because I figured I owed people like sylph at hte very least my own efforts of communication in return for what I was given =).

Anyway, nobody was being too blunt or offensive or anything, not sure why some people mention that. No insults were hurled or anything.
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