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Author Topic: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions  (Read 26681 times)

Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2014, 15:22 »

I actually found that pistols seems really really good as soon as I make it out of the arena...The arena itself though is really nasty because you don't have enough dps to burst down a demon just yet, and I'm not fast enough to outrun them either yet. It's really not that bad if you aren't unlucky, but I kept getting one arena after another after another where I'd spawn right on top of like 2 demons and 1-2 cacodemons. Even with 3 free turns it's just too much for a pistol user with just 1 level =P.

About rapid builds though aside from ammochain, that's correct, I failed to consider how much more useful miniguns would be if they were more accurate. I still can't help but wonder though how one deals with the ammo efficiency issues, because even with pistols (which are more efficient at ammo conservation), ammo is an issue...though I guess maybe it's outweighed by the fact that as dw pistols, you can't use 250x ammo boxes.

I also wanna try single-wield pistol with 3 ranks of sonnofagun, and 2 ranks finesse (only cuz you can't get rank 4 and 5 of SoG until way late). I'll probably try this approach for those general master traits that don't favor any weapons.

Anyway I finished my 100 floor thing with shotgun. It's kinda sad, immediately after I committed to shotguns, I had clerica beretta's drop...like 8 of them, seriously...it was just mean, I also saw a single combat pistol (which I like more but only 1). I got 2 more sniper mods, and a firestorm mod, never got to nano my super shotgun, which would have been nice because I REALLY had to skip killing monsters to conserve ammo later on. Archvilles were the most common enemy, not sure if that's weird or not.
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Thiebs

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2014, 23:48 »

I still can't help but wonder though how one deals with the ammo efficiency issues, because even with pistols (which are more efficient at ammo conservation), ammo is an issue...though I guess maybe it's outweighed by the fact that as dw pistols, you can't use 250x ammo boxes.
If you find yourself having ammo issues a lot, it might be that you're building your traits a little too aggressively. Triggerhappy and Finesse are great for raw DPS, but SoB and EE are better for making each round count.
Also, and you might already know this, so sorry if it sounds stupid, but you can carry those ammo boxes around and use 'U' to unload them when your 100x stacks are running low.
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Sylph

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2014, 04:09 »

Theibs is right - pistol users can use ammo boxes to store bullets just fine, they just don't get a reload speed bonus from carrying them in the offhand!

As for rapidfire ammo issues - Sure, pistols use less bullets than chainguns, but rapidfire characters also get to use cells as a main ammo source. This is like having twice as much ammo drop! This alone is enough ammo to play through the game with, but there are other tips to offer if you're somehow still struggling:

Miniguns and BFGs are a great way of storing ammo (although you might want to use the first mnigun you find for a highpower or TTTAF modding project!). Then there's nuclear plasma rifles, nano/nanomachic, and (on nightmare or vs archviles) corpse-farming, but none of these are necessary, they're just useful to haves.
Finally, carry a shotgun and a single stack of shells as a backup weapon. Shotguns are remarkably ammo-efficient. Also, I like to carry the chainsaw with me most of the time. A few ranks of eagle eye and good use of 'tagging' tricks make the chainsaw a surprisingly reliable weapon to conserve ammo.
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Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2014, 19:29 »

I actually didn't realize you could 'U' an ammo box, that will help alot! thanks!

Still have to experiment on the math with gunkata builds but I did the sharpshooter build recently and discovered that 3 ranks of son of a gun makes finesse near useless... In that situation attack speed is multiplicative, not added, so your 0.4s attackspeed merely drops down to 0.34. Hopefully the 20% penalty with the dual wield trait is also multiplicative instead of added, otherwise you are better off using 1 pistol with 5 ranks of SoG over using 2.

That said I managed to die in halls of carnage of all places qq. I was at the end and was just roaming around trying to peg off the last baron for 100% kill completion, I had 44% health and was wearing armor, Id idn't think a baron could hit that hard in one hit.. welp, apparently they can *cries*, I turned a corner looking for it, got acid-balled to the face, and died. Halls of carnage.. seriously, it's like the easiest special floor in the game.. ugh.
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aka_Cthulhu

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2014, 01:26 »

I actually didn't realize you could 'U' an ammo box, that will help alot! thanks!

Still have to experiment on the math with gunkata builds but I did the sharpshooter build recently and discovered that 3 ranks of son of a gun makes finesse near useless... In that situation attack speed is multiplicative, not added, so your 0.4s attackspeed merely drops down to 0.34. Hopefully the 20% penalty with the dual wield trait is also multiplicative instead of added, otherwise you are better off using 1 pistol with 5 ranks of SoG over using 2.

I recently did a run on Ao666 using a gun kata build. Didn't really pay attention to the math, but here's what I found. Attack speed was around .9 I think? Maybe less than that. Using a storm bolter combat pistol and a grammaton at burst mode on the other hand, it took around 2 shots max on hell knights. Archviles, mancubi, barons usually took 2-3. Shamblers, nightmare archviles, agony elementals, and flame elementals took... I didn't really pay attention to how many shots were fired, but they were killed before both guns went empty. Cyberdemons required me to reload manually once before they go down.

The combat pistol with the storm mod and the beretta were fast at taking anything down (even without the beretta, a second storm bolter had helped me out). Like... when I enter a new floor I could be surrounded by two groups of barons of hell and archviles. Before any of them could fire, I would have finished them all out so long as I had the bullets to spare, which I did. Every few floors there's usually a group of former captains, and all I had to do was be careful not to accidentally hit a barrel, and make sure mancubi and revenants were out of sight before taking the ammo.
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Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2014, 03:06 »

So I'm doing a 100 floor gunkata, at floor 37 now, everything going fine except for the fact that 9mm is not dropping again. Down to my last ammo box (learning I could 'U' them was a lifesaver). I made myself a tactical shotgun in case of emergency ammo issues but it's pretty weak now. I plan on making some energy pistols for when I run out of regular ammo but I still don't have wizkid yet, I don't even have finesse yet, it's what I'm getting on my next level up.

Anyway, for those interested, the math with pistols works like this:
5 ranks of sunnofa gun = 0.1s attackspeed, dual wield = 0.1 * 1.2 = 0.12 attackspeed - Scout class = 0.11 attackspeed.
Soo, Basically my semi-auto pistols fire faster than a gattling gun (do more damage per bullet too cuz 5 ranks of sunnofa gun, and 2d4 base instead of 1d8 =P. I made them both high power because ammo is an issue more than anything, and I did take keeneye pretty soon.

That said I quit for safety purposes... I've had this problem for awhile now but it's happening particularly frequently right now. So I saved and quit until I hopefully fix it...Basically my game (only doom, no other games or programs) simply goes ape-dung on the controls, it'll mash the keyboard on its own or something. caps lock, open inventory, show grid, un-equip armor, move around randomly (this is why I quit because it could move me to my death), and not slowly either...Very scary... Even if I alt-tab it'll alt-tab back to the game and continue to eff around. It's almost like a virus starts taking over my keyboard but like I said, it's doomrl only. What the dill.

I haven't looked at the tech support/whatever forums yet so I'll do so now but blah. As for Cthulhu, I haven't found a single exotic/unique pistol or mod yet so I'm still running around with dual high-powers. But with 5 ranks of SoG, they seem capable of killing everything before reloading except maybe revanants and bruiser brothers...Note I haven't bumped into any cyberdemons or agony elementals yet. with a 0.11s attackspeed too, I can pretty much just stand there in the open shooting at mancubus without fear of being shot at. Unfortunately they are nearly never alone, and almost always have Arch-villes with them, who maddeningly love hiding behind their meatshield that I don't want to simply blast thru to get at archie since hell is hell because it has no effing ammo (except rockets, lots and lots of effing rockets, argh). =P.
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Thiebs

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2014, 04:55 »

Rockets dispose of corpses, though...
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aka_Cthulhu

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2014, 05:18 »

Switching to rockets on a gun kata build can get a bit time consuming, though. At that point, the only thing I do in a pinch is try to move around, carefully navigate my way out of the line of fire of mancubi or revenants or whatever the arch vile could revive and make my way to the point where the vile is in my line of sight. It can get pretty hectic since past floor 100 or 200 it seems that there's a decent number of them. Of course, there's also the problem if the meatshield is standing between me and the archvile so I can't get a good shot in. After so many games, I keep forgetting about making use of dodgemaster. Those mancubi can hit hard, which became my downfall much later since I had no choice but to discard the inquisitor's set for the cybernano phaseshift armor - that one was good, but it didn't have the fire resistance that I needed.
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Thiebs

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2014, 07:28 »

That was kinda sarcastic, sorry. Should have remembered to put the ol' internet-sarcasm-alert-winkey-face in. But you could use Juggler, should you end up valuing it enough.
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Ghaleon

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2014, 11:32 »

That was kinda sarcastic, sorry. Should have remembered to put the ol' internet-sarcasm-alert-winkey-face in. But you could use Juggler, should you end up valuing it enough.

Rockets gibbing enemies is nice yeah, but ive had too many occasions where they blow up loot/ammo.
There have even been a couple floors where i felt "something valuable", fired all of 1 or 2 rockets, missed, and then later on, discover that there was in fact nothing valuable. I thought special drops were immune to complete destruction but evidently not.
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Sylph

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2014, 12:55 »

They don't get destroyed on the floor... Chances are an enemy picked up a unique armour, and you shot it to pieces while trying to kill that enemy.
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ZicherCZ

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2014, 14:55 »

From the Wiki:
"Uniques are, just as the name says, unique in a particular run-through of DoomRL. They only appear once per game, and can only be modded by Technicians (though this depends on the unique, see below). Uniques are normally indestructible by normal means (explosions, including nuking a level), but will be lost if an enemy carries them, and is gibbed."

So, an unfortunate missed rocket hitting an off-LOS unfortunate former, unfortunately wearing that Malek's Armor ...
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Tormuse

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2014, 00:40 »

Theibs is right - pistol users can use ammo boxes to store bullets just fine, they just don't get a reload speed bonus from carrying them in the offhand!

I have to correct you on that; ammo boxes do give you a reload speed bonus when they're in your prepared slot.  Ammo boxes are especially useful with slow-reloading pistols like the Trigun; I've used them myself for that purpose several times.
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Thiebs

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2014, 00:54 »

I think he meant that he couldn't get a reload speed bonus while dual-weilding. Still good to know when playing a Technician!
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aka_Cthulhu

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Re: Only played this for a weekish now, some praises/questions
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2014, 05:58 »

I think he meant that he couldn't get a reload speed bonus while dual-weilding. Still good to know when playing a Technician!

I remember a close call I had regarding ammo boxes. So I had several ammo boxes for my dual wielding pistols. I'm almost out of non-ammo box ammo, and I was fighting off a group of mancubi and a nightmare archvile. So I run out of ammo, and as it turns out the gun kata doesn't auto-reload from ammo boxes in the inventory. I managed to run like hell out of enemy fire and unload that ammo box to save my ass.
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