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[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Yeah, I bragged about it for a time now. The whole point is that I think the current DoomRL Tactics system SUCKS. It is unintuitive, it makes people that understand it use it in a boring way, and it's generally no fun. So it's time to discuss how to change it. My original idea was to tie tactics to a energy system (like the one used in Berserk!) and make the effects a lot stronger (and immidately visible). But I'm not sure of the impact it would have on gameplay, and it would also introduce a new stat to DoomRL (is it good?). Well, here's your occassion to talk about the new tactics system. I'm gathering ideas!

[DaEezT]

Open a topic in the *you know where* talking about *that game* and maybe I'll come up with something there that you can use for DoomRL as well :p

[Zephyre Syx]

Haha, only chickens survive hell, apparently.

Oh, throw this in a bucket - Traits having impact with tactics, and availability of tactics.

[Fingerzam]

I like this kind of tactics much more. You can only use them for a pretty short period of time so they can have much bigger effect on gameplay and would be saved for tight situations.

[Blade]

I like the way DooMRL is now, but maybe energy-based tactics will be better. I'd like to see "Run-Like-Hell" tactic, when you have little chance to hit, little damage, but great speed and dodge chance. I'm not against new stat for tactics use. Energy should be restored gradually each turn when you do not use energy-consuming tactics. Like in BerserkRL. What about traits that are increasing tactics effect - it's not bad idea. And traits that allows you to use new tactics are also good idea.

Maybe something like this: you can use Cautious(normal tactic without energy consumption, but without benefits), and Coward and Agressive tactics(consumes energy, effects like now, but stronger) by default. Hellrunner*3 can grant you "Run-Like-Hell" tactic. Berserk*2 can grant you Berserk tactic(you become berserk, but this tactic consumes LOTS of energy). Tough As Nails*3 can grant you ****** tactic(increases your armor by 5 points, but decreases your speed).

[Supernaut]

I love Blades ideas. And I second your opinion, current tactics are unreliable in many cases. 

[Adral]

Sign me in for Energy-based tactics with a greater impact. I wouldn't mind having another stat for that, as long as it's clear what that stat does exactly.

Blade's ideas sound really nice, by the way ;).

[BDR]

Energy consumption sounds like a nice solution to the problem of how to increase the effectiveness of tactics without breaking them.  A trait for increasing the energy pool/decreasing energy consumption sounds like it would go along with this, though, as well perhaps an advanced trait where you reduce the 'normal' (coward/aggressive) tactic consumption rates to maybe between a half and a third what they'd normally be, and 'special' tactics (like the berserk and other tactics suggested) by somewhere between a quarter and a third of their normal rates.

[Supernaut]

Should we also post brainstorm ideas about other tactics???

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Why not, this is a "fix the tactics!" thread :)

[TFoN]

IMO tactics as they are now are just fine, for the most part. But yeah, people have come to learn to abuse them, switching tactics on a turn-to-turn basis. That's why I suggest a tactics-activasion delay. Falling prone takes time - switching from fierce aggression to jumpy cowardice takes time, too. I don't think there's much sense, however, in having any casual tactic be a draining task. Aggressive is effectively, the way I see it, not so much a straining activity as it is a mindset, gaining a good aim and a quick trigger in favour of hazard awareness and reactions to them. Coward's the opposite, and Cautious is a blend of the two, and therefor no less draining. Also, I don't think adding an energy counter to the lot will be in line with the direct, simple nature of DoomRL.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

TOPIC BUMP!

I'm still wondering about it so please...

DISCUSS!

[DaEezT]

IMO the problem is that DoomRl is, and should remain, too action oriented for a complex tactics system (basically what TFoN said).

A delay for tactic switching sounds reasonable but should not be applied immediately but instead be applied to the next action the player performs. Also, the delay should be applied for each tactics "step". Meaning switching from Aggressive to Coward should incur twice the penalty because you have to switch to Cautious first. And finally, the game should not apply the penalty if I switch back to my original tactic without doing anything :p

[tisiphone]

Just to make sure we are all know what we are talking about could we have an official statement on just what the tactics do. I mean, I have an idea, but I’m not a 100% sure.

This is how understand the tactics work - ish:
Caution: no bonuses, no penalties.
Aggressive: bonus to attack, penalties to dodge.
Coward: bonus to dodge, penalties to attack.   

If my idea of how the tactics work isn’t too far off, then I probably agree with DaEezT and TFoN.

Also I think there is a problem with the dodge bonus / penalties. Not imbalance exactly, but well... The thing is you only need a bonus to attack when you are actually attacking. This is not the case with dodge bonus as you could be fired on at any point in the game so a bonus in dodge is always useful and a penalty is always a downer. Also there is a fact that if you are seriously out numbered then a dodge bonus will probably do more good then the attack bonus in the long run. Basically the dodge bonus has more uses then the attack bonus which makes coward mode rather more appealing then I think it is intended.     

[007bistromath]

All I know is that if there's going to be more than three, you need a way to choose them directly rather than cycling them, because it's already annoying enough.