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Nightmare demons, how to deal with them?

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Svankensen:
I ran into these nasties in the phobos lab (Now im 100% sure i like the base better), and i was unable to kill a sinlge one. In my first encounter it was in the small cave, where i expected to melt norml pikies with my combat shotgun, but things went badly and i teleported. The next one i saw killed me. Knockback seemed to happen only rarely, and even when corner shooting one at max range (cateye max range) with a combat shotgun i didnt manage to get him beyond scratched until he was eating my face (not a native english speaker, so if thats a double-entendre please ignore). I could have used the rocket launcher (im pretty sure i will next time, IF i enter that damned place again), but is there a normal way to kill them? Specially if you run into them at close range (it was ignorance tho, expecting pikies, next time it shouldnt happen). Now, maybe it is the lack of a "pain" sound effect, but it seemed my chaingun was barely hurting the things. So... anyway, i had SoBx2 THx1 and an A-modded chaingun, and it seemed to fare poorly.

Also, this is the first nightmare something i meet in UV, the furthest i've reached was the halls of carnage, where the lava speed got me (another nasty surprise), so i must ask if i will be meeting another nightmare thingies and if they are as nasty as these. If so, and the answer is just "nuke them from orbit", i will take out the rocket launcher and do as told.

LuckyDee:
Taking into account the following

Disclaimer: I've known these bastards were there since shortly after the launch of 0.9.9.7 and thus have never even attempted Phobos Lab on UV

here's some tips:


--- Quote from: Svankensen on June 25, 2014, 21:19 ---Knockback seemed to happen only rarely, and even when corner shooting one at max range (cateye max range) with a combat shotgun i didnt manage to get him beyond scratched until he was eating my face
--- End quote ---

Knockback depends on how much damage you do. Damage from a combat shotgun at long range is so low you can't even call it damage without snigggering anymore. Armor against shrapnel counts double (nightmare demons have armor 3) and the drop-off is 5% per tile (applied before the armor reduction, I believe). Shotguns are not your friend here, generally speaking.


--- Quote from: Svankensen on June 25, 2014, 21:19 ---I could have used the rocket launcher

--- End quote ---

Not necessarily a good idea either. If you hit the wrong tile, you launch them towards you instead of away. Not amusing.


--- Quote from: Svankensen on June 25, 2014, 21:19 ---Now, maybe it is the lack of a "pain" sound effect

--- End quote ---

Nightmare creatures indeed make no sound, but the "pain" effect for other creatures plays every time they're hit, regardless of the amount of damage you do.


--- Quote from: Svankensen on June 25, 2014, 21:19 ---i must ask if i will be meeting another nightmare thingies and if they are as nasty as these.
--- End quote ---

* LuckyDee tries not to laugh too loud...
As for tactics:
1) If you can outrun them, dragging them through the acid might work
2) A rapidfire or pistol build with a high (HIGH) dps might do the trick

Again, since I haven't tried this for myself, I can't say for sure what will work and what won't. I'm betting Tormuse has tried and beaten this level on every imaginable build; my money for the best advice is on him right now. Although Sylph and maybe mr. Zicher may be able to offer some good contributions too...

Svankensen:
Oh, i know the shotgun mechanics, its just that i wasnt sure what i was shooting at until it showed its face. Then again, the lack of sound should have tipped me off. Also, i hate shooting with non shotguns blindly, specially without EE, since i rarely hit. I should have just gotten out of the corner and start shooting it. If those are the only nightmare monsters im bound to face ill just avoid the lab like the plague. I checked those nasties HP and the have 80! Theres no way i can kill more than a couple even on a good game with my current tactics.

Anyway, after all those deaths i did learn some lessons. While i got killed in all my lucky games (the ones with rare weapons) im about to win now (i hope i didnt jinx it). I got an hyperblaster and a Bulk 1 BFG, a PO Red armor and the late commer to the party, the NPT minigun. I was just carrying it plus 2 ammo chains to save energy cells, but when i saw the Nano-mod i decided there was hardly a better weapon to put it in. i mean, sure, 3 free shots from the BFG every level sounds cool, but im full of energy cells anyway, and with the minigun to mow down the chaff and the hyperblaster to kill the rest im bound to have energy cells to spare if i ever need to abuse the BFG.

RogerN:
The most readily available method for dealing with nightmare demons is the double shotgun.  If you don't have shottyman or reloader traits then you'll also need a shell box.  These items are usually found (more than 50%?  maybe?) by the time you reach the Phobos lab.  The double shotgun provides plenty of knockback, especially at close range, to keep the demons off you while you kill them.

Another tactic is to use an env suit and lure them out into the acid pool.  It can be difficult to get all of them to follow you at once, though.

Svankensen:
Smart guy!

Makes lots of sense, ill keep it in mind.

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