Chaosforge Forum

  • March 28, 2024, 23:55
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: special ammunition  (Read 21781 times)

RepoRipper

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
special ammunition
« on: March 03, 2007, 21:09 »

i had an idea for alternate ammo! they wouldnt affect damage (at least not primary damage) but they would have powerful effects! to offset this they are not easily found, AND they are "bigger" than normal: a full slot of them holds less than full slot of normal ammo. okay heres the ones i have come up with. #ps means # per full slot.

10mm AP (Armor Piercing) ammo - 50ps
10mm HE (High Explosive) ammo - 50ps (explosion the same size as the imps fireballs)
HE Shotgun Shells - 25ps (HE Shotgun Shells are a classic form of ammo)
Concussion Rockets - 5ps (no damage, huge knockback, hurts on impact with walls, ndoes not destroy items, but can destroy normal and bloodied walls up to 1 space away from the impact point)
Power Cell - 10ps (the power cell is from the original doom game, its a plasma cell that holds 10 charges each, when used to reload, it powers 10 charges. if there isnt enough room in the clip, u cant reload with these)
10mm AB (Atomic Blossom) ammo - 10ps (the holy grail of AoM, extremely rare, these bullets, when fired, become highly radioactive, causing anything 1 space away from its path to take radiation damage, which is like bleed damage but stronger and cannot be removed by healing. you are immune to the effect as the bullet does not become radioactive until shortly after leaving the barrel!)

note this means some of those much too common rockets are concussion rockets that dont destroy items!
also the 10mm AB is iffy, but its hard to find, and takes up a lot of space, for the clip size. that radiation damage affects the target too, but in that case it is in addition to the normal damage!
Logged

BDR

  • Elder
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 400
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2007, 23:13 »

So the Atomic Blossom's damage is sort of like lava damage, only without any safe floor to step on for a given amount of time?  And who cares if they could heal it away or not?  It's not too often that monsters get a chance to pick up medkits even in the early game, and by the late game most of those who do are prone to death by one or two blasts from your weapon.  Also, I thought the acid *was* radioactive.  If so, does that mean Hell Barons are immune to the effects of this weapon?  If not, how do you explain their being immune to radioactive acid that they are actually stepping in but not radioactivity from a pint-sized bullet that they aren't even being hit by?  Also also, the limiting to 10 per stack seems like you've made this ammo type both overpowered and useless at the same time.  Scarcity is NOT balance.
Logged

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4562
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2007, 07:10 »

The real problem why special ammo won't make it to the game is that it would severely clutter up the reload interface.
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

RepoRipper

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2007, 15:01 »

okay BDR no its not timed, the radiation is powerful but dissipates vry quickly, but flesh absobs it, so its like poision. the damage works like bleed damage, but longer lasting, and doesnt heal itself. when it winds down to 1 damage, the next turn it will dissapear. its called a radioactive "half-life". its not timed, it is just so highly radioactive (the bullet, i mean) that it irradiates anything it passes close to! acid is acid, not toxic waste, its not radioactive. nothings immune to this damage, or even resistant. (can u imagine fighting something immune to the nuke!!!?????) also, the ammo limits it to mostly AoMr, and it ignores armor, since it is hurting the creature from inside. scarcity, nah, they r common enough on later levels, but they are not found very early on, either.

ok Kornel, i forgot to mention that the way the reloader works is this: whatever ammo is in it already (or was in it if its empty), if u have any more of it, it will reload that, if not, it will reload types starting with normal, then AP, HE, AB, and Concussion, if applicable. Power Cells are reloaded last, if they can be loaded. reload command will first ask if u want to change ammo type, then bring up ammo type window to choose from, if there is no room in inv for ammo coming out of gun, it is dropped.
Logged

BDR

  • Elder
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 400
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2007, 17:21 »

The way reloading works now: You press r, the gun is reloaded, and you are done.  You have two guns or want to do something special with a particular gun, you press Shift+R and your guns are reloaded/you do something special with a particular gun, and you are done.

The way you are suggesting reloading change: You press r, the game asks you if you want to change your ammo, you say no, your gun is reloaded.  You want to change ammo, you press r, the game asks you if you want to change ammo, you say yes, you get a screen similar to the equip armor screen, unload gun screen, or use item screen showing the different ammo types, you pick the one you want, your gun is loaded with the new type, and you are done.

Is that accurate?  If so, I gotta agree with Kornel; it's a lot simpler the way it works now.
Logged

RepoRipper

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2007, 21:42 »

or the ammo select part could be limited to special reload. or a new button altogether.
Logged

DaEezT

  • Greater Elder
  • Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2007, 00:05 »

Am I the only one who thinks this is "undoomish"?
Outside the roguelike world, games like System Shock, Deus Ex, Fallout and Jagged Alliance use different ammo types. Shooters Like Doom, Quake, Max Payne, Far Cry don't.
DoomRL is the RL equivalent to a shooter. You don't solve problems (= how to kill an enemy) with different ammo types but with bigger weapons :D
Logged
"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

RepoRipper

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2007, 20:45 »

obviously you have never played turok! it uses a LOT of weapons, with great variety, but some have differennt modes or ammo to fire. and its just as much a shooter as Doom, if more active about methods of solving problems. you DO realize that no pure FPS is any good without puzzling problems involving keys, switches, and methods of reaching areas. thats what doom does. its why u cant jump in Doom. u have to run off a higher ledge. most such FPS's are a little more advanced, in that they feature jumping!
Logged

BDR

  • Elder
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 400
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2007, 23:30 »

I did play Turok, and I was not fond of it.  I must say that I also liked Max Payne a lot despite it's lack of multiple keys and switches necessary to gaining further access to the rest of the game, and much preferred it's focus on the actual shooting rather than the constant search for 'the key to the next area'.

I think a better example would be System Shock; while I haven't played much of it, I have heard a lot about it and the sequel.  There, the focus is on completing various goals that are more involved than simply "find key x, use it to get to key y, then use that to get to key z, which will allow you to get to the exit" type 'puzzles' you might find in earlier FPS's, as well as strategic usage of the given resources to make it possible to survive the various enemies rather than just saying "Whoa, enemy, gotta blow him to shreds!"  Then again, neither game really qualifies as a 'pure' FPS; even so I rather think that nowadays people would disagree with you that a good FPS requires that you be searching for keys and switches all the time to progress and that you need a variety of ammo types to make for a varied shooting experience.  Now that I think of it, No One Lives Forever does use varied ammo types, but that doesn't mean the game would have suffered if they hadn't been involved, and that is not a 'pure' FPS either as you gain skills during the progress of the game.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 23:41 by BDR »
Logged

Anticheese

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2007, 23:43 »

A great idea for Shock II RL but I think it would just overcomplicate things..

Too many cooks features spoil the game...One of DRL's best parts is that it is an ideal coffee break game: Easy to play, hard to win but fun to play at the same time.

Also remember that the game is based off Doom - the classic shooter.

Oh and the backpacks, it's hard enough to keep enough ammo in the way it is.

Its a good idea, but it just wont fit in..
Logged

DaEezT

  • Greater Elder
  • Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2007, 00:04 »

obviously you have never played turok!
Obviously I have, and I regret every minute of it.
Logged
"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

TFoN

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 562
  • Gleefully antisocial!
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 02:36 »

RepoRipper, DaEezT gave multiple examples of games involving various ammo types per weapon, some of which are shooters - Turok's just another one to the list, so it doesn't really change his point: more possibilities are a good thing, if the game is of a type/style different from that of DoomRL, and I, like him, am not keen on changing that type :)

RepoRipper

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2007, 16:56 »

okay.... i relent. but look around the newer posts, and somewhere Kornel mentions his prior intentions of making Master Traits, i think its a post for a large number of trait ideas. read his explanation for more. but im thinking how bout this instead of AP rounds: an advanced trait that nullifies one point of enemy armor for all your attacks. useful against the cyberdemon! which is why only 2 levels! but even cooler, what do you think of THIS:
Bomberman (i know, it just seems right to me, maybye cuz i cant think of anything else.) Master Trait
1 level max, requires : 4 SoB; Shottyman; 2 TaN; 2 SoG; 1 DG; 0 Brute; 0 Berserker. (look at kornels idea)
Effect: causes all 10mm ammo to become explosive! blast radius of an imp's fireballs. a respectable but not unbalancing boost to damage (via explosion). the real balancer is that in addition to no melee traits, you cannot use any melee weapon (except unarmed)! bomberman never could hold a knife anyhow, so neither can you!
Logged

Supernaut

  • First Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 17:47 »

Special ammo = overcomplication.

Quote
i think its a post for a large number of trait ideas.
There is another topic for new traits ideas.
Quote
read his explanation for more. but im thinking how bout this instead of AP rounds: an advanced trait that nullifies one point of enemy armor for all your attacks. useful against the cyberdemon!
This is actually not a bad idea for a trait, but I think it should apply to all weapons and would require SoaB 2 :)
Maybe only 1 level - if it seems to be too powerful.
Quote
but even cooler, what do you think of THIS:
Bomberman (i know, it just seems right to me, maybye cuz i cant think of anything else.) Master Trait
1 level max, requires : 4 SoB; Shottyman; 2 TaN; 2 SoG; 1 DG; 0 Brute; 0 Berserker. (look at kornels idea)
Effect: causes all 10mm ammo to become explosive! blast radius of an imp's fireballs. a respectable but not unbalancing boost to damage (via explosion). the real balancer is that in addition to no melee traits, you cannot use any melee weapon (except unarmed)! bomberman never could hold a knife anyhow, so neither can you!
Idea sounds pretty...crap for me. First of all requirements you gave are insane, in ITYTD and NTR you wont even get so many levels (unless you are Blade, or other Uber Cyber Demon General, who wins AoB on level higher than medium) but we could probably make them less. Second 3x3 radius isnt really big, you wont hit many monsters. Third, it just sounds completely undoomish... Doom had some kind of realism in it.
Logged

Supernaut

  • First Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: special ammunition
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 17:49 »

obviously you have never played turok!
Obviously I have, and I regret every minute of it.
Why does everyone whine about Turok ;> ? You don't like killing dinos?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4