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Author Topic: [N!|ArchAoHu|53%|10|YASD] Epic ending battle, AKA How am I not dead?  (Read 4284 times)

Tormuse

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I'm still periodically trying to get the Everyman Angelic badge.  I'm certain that it's doable with a lucky enough game.  This was another failed attempt that I'm only posting because there was a pretty epic battle in the end which I almost won, (if I'd known that was the last Cacodemon in the room, I would've played differently) and someone recently suggested that we need some more awesome DoomRL videos.  :)

I think the video speaks for itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Tormuse, level 5 Apostle Chaos Mjr General Scout,
 was melted by former commando's plasma gun on level 2 of the Deimos base.
 He survived 23196 turns and scored 83412 points.
 He played for 19 minutes and 51 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 226 out of 424 hellspawn. (53%)
 He was an Archangel of Humanity!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 1
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (bronze cluster)

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #..........#.............#...#...........h...h..0#.........
  #......\...#.............#...###########/#h#######....h.h.h
  #..........#.............#...#.........h.........#.........
  #.|........#.............#...#..........h........#......h..
  #.h}.......+...........0.+...#..............h...h#.........
  #h}h.......#.............#...#############+###########+####
  #...h.....0+.............#...+...........O..^....#.........
  #..........#.............#...#+##########+########.........
  #......0...#.0...........#...#...................#.........
  #..........+.............#...#...........[.......##########
  #..........#.............#...#...0......^........#.........
  #..........#......[......#...#...................#.........
  #..........+.........0...#...#..........0........#...0.....
  ##X###########################..|................#.........
  #|.O.....%.....0.............#...................#........^
  #...............%............#...0...............#.......\.
  #...........%................#..;................+.........
  #.......%....%...............#...................#....|....
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/10   Experience 9848/5
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Hellrunner       (Level 1)

  HR->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   red armor [1/4] (15%) (A)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chainsaw (4d6) (T)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [1/1] (98%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   rocket launcher (6d6) [0/1]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] shotgun (8d3) [0/1] (B1)
    [b] red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [c] shotgun shell (x50)
    [d] shotgun shell (x50)
    [e] shotgun shell (x50)
    [f] shotgun shell (x50)
    [g] shotgun shell (x50)
    [h] shotgun shell (x50)
    [i] shotgun shell (x50)
    [j] shotgun shell (x50)
    [k] shotgun shell (x50)
    [l] shotgun shell (x32)
    [m] shotgun shell (x50)
    [n] shotgun shell (x50)
    [o] rocket (x8)
    [p] envirosuit pack
    [q] power mod pack
    [r] power mod pack

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Fire       - internal 0%    torso 6%    feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    44 former humans
    46 former sergeants
    9 former captains
    85 imps
    11 demons
    18 lost souls
    3 hell knights
    2 barons of hell
    2 arachnotrons
    3 former commandos
    1 pain elemental
    1 revenant
    1 mancubus

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 10 he finally was melted by former commando's plasma gun.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 lying here. There is power cell (x20) lying here.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a former sergeant (heavily wounded) | floor | [ m ]ore
 You hear the scream of a freed soul! The former sergeant dies. You feel more
 You see : a baron of hell (heavily wounded) | blood | [ m ]ore
 There is power cell (x20) lying here.
 There is power cell (x20) lying here.
 You prepare the chainsaw! There is power cell (x20) lying here. There is
 power cell (x20) lying here.
 You hit the baron of hell. There is power cell (x20) lying here.
 You hit the baron of hell. The baron of hell dies. There is power cell (x20)
 lying here.
 You use a large med-pack. You feel fully healed. Your red armor is damaged!
 There is power cell (x20) lying here.
 You hit the cacodemon. You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You die!...
 Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 1307 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 1018 of those were killed.
 5 of those were killed by something unknown.
 152 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 40 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 92 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 5 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 61 killed the bitch and survived.
 26 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Logged
Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

Thiebs

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Woah. Why you no run mode?
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0.9.9.7- Hell Baron 1st Lieutenant: (23|13|5|0|0)

Tormuse

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Woah. Why you no run mode?

Huh?  I spent a lot of time running.  Is there a specific time that I didn't run that I should have?
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

papilio

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How do you plan to kill Cyberdemon?

You cannot have Dodgemaster trait.
Without fireproof red armor or energy shield (which is hard to find), you'll get instakilled.
With environmental suit + plain red armor, the average rocket damage will 5~6.
With the fireproof red armor, the average damage from rocket blast would be 5~6.

With environmental suit + fireproof red armor (which makes total +80% fire resistance), the average rocket damage will 1~2...
But finding bulk pack + tech pack + env suit would not be easy, huh?

I think medpacks will run out before getting rid of that massive amount of HP.

I think the only way is finding nuke+inv globe and nuke it...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 08:41 by papilio »
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0.9.9.7 (after reset)
Cyberdemon Chaos Mjr. General
Medals: 43/43
Badges: 26/26/26/25/23/7[/color

Tormuse

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True, the Cyberdemon is a huge hurdle for completing this challenge.  In my best attempt, (which I haven't posted) I got him down to severely wounded thanks to a lucky berserk pack and lots of chainsawing.  (I would have succeeded if I had played a little differently or if he had spawned closer to me; I suppose I can post that video too if anyone's interested)  :)

I don't think getting Fireproof armour (or using ranged weapons in general) is a viable strategy; since you can't get SOB or EE, your ranged weapons simply don't do enough damage to kill him quickly enough, and he would be continually pounding on you, knocking you away, forcing you to waste time moving back into range again.  I think the best option is the Chainsaw accompanied by berserk or invulnerability.  You just have to hope to get lucky enough to find those just before facing him.

And if I'm lucky enough to find a nuke, I'm using it on the Spider Mastermind; I would only use one on Cybie if I find two nukes.
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

papilio

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I used my calculator (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,7295.0.html)
to figure out the "effective" weapon for Cyberdemon:

With Scout+HR+ArchAoHu setting (no SoB, EE, WK, ...)

Melee:

Chainsaw(B), Butcher's Cleaver : DPS 6.8 for non-berserk / 15.4 for berserk
Piercing chainsaw : DPS 8.0 for non-berserk / 16.0 for berserk

Ranged(distance 5, considering reloading time) :

Super shotgun(P1) : DPS 4.0 / 8.6 with shell box
Plasma shotgun(P1) : DPS 8.0 / 9.2 with power battery
Jackhammer : DPS 6.0 / 9.5 with shell box

Plasma rifle(P1) : DPS 9.1 (chainfire)
Laser rifle(P1) : DPS 14.0 (chainfire)
High power laser rifle : DPS 15.0 (chainfire)


So.. yes, if you can find plenty of berserk pack or inv globes, then meleeing can be a doable strategy, but it seems luck-based and dangerous.

I think preparing P-modded plasma rifle/laser rifle + env suits + fireproof red armor would be the "safest" way.
Having +80% fire resistance, the rocket blast would not knock you back more than 1~2 tiles.
You'll need at least 2 env suits and 3 large medpacks to do this.
Anyway.. good luck.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 13:13 by papilio »
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0.9.9.7 (after reset)
Cyberdemon Chaos Mjr. General
Medals: 43/43
Badges: 26/26/26/25/23/7[/color

Thiebs

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I only saw a few minutes at the end, and was being rushed (no home internet), but in the last few moments you spent at cautious. Just an oversight, or intentional?
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0.9.9.7- Hell Baron 1st Lieutenant: (23|13|5|0|0)

Tormuse

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I only saw a few minutes at the end, and was being rushed (no home internet), but in the last few moments you spent at cautious. Just an oversight, or intentional?

I was berserk up until the last few seconds.  It always says "cautious" when you're berserk.  After it wore off, I still didn't run because I was using the Chainsaw and running would have reduced my melee accuracy.  If I had been using the shotgun, then yes, it would have been prudent for me to run and I did run for most of the game, but in this case, running would not have been to my advantage.

EDIT:
Having +80% fire resistance, the rocket blast would not knock you back more than 1~2 tiles.

I've heard people say a few times on this forum that fire resistance reduces knockback from rockets.  I'm pretty sure that's untrue, so I decided to put it to the test.  I just played an ITYTD speedrun in which I gathered the mods to make fireproof red armour, a power-modded rocket launcher, two envirosuits, and as many rockets as I could find.

Then, I rocket-jumped eighteen times without any armour or boots on, 0% fire resistance and 0% knockback reduction and counted how many squares I traveled.  Here are the results:

15, 11,  9, 14,  8, 12, 12, 13, 16, 12, 12, 11, 10, 12,  8, 13, 12, 12;  Average:  11.78

Then, I did the same with fireproof red armour on and envirosuit activated, 80% fire resistance and 0% knockback reduction and counted the squares for each rocket-jump again.

13, 12, 13, 12,  6, 15,  6, 10, 10, 10, 14, 11, 11, 15, 15, 13, 12, 16;  Average:  11.89

The average numbers of squares traveled are very close.  In fact, it was slightly higher when I had the higher fire resistance!  (and certainly not 80% lower!)  I think this test proves pretty conclusively that fire resistance does not reduce knockback from rocket explosions.  I think it's safe to say that the game calculates knockback first and then damage reduction afterward.  (Also, having the fire resistance made my rocket-jumps hurt a lot less; I was taking 1 or 2 points of damage at a time with the fire resistance, but without fire resistance, each jump knocked off about a third of my health!)  I think it's also worth noting that on the occasions that I got knocked 16 squares, it activated berserk!  (I was playing a melee build)  Berserk got triggered whether I had resistances or not; this means it also calculates the "red screen flash" effect before taking damage reduction into account, which means you can get berserk triggered by getting hit without it doing much damage.  (This has significant implications for melee games!)

Anyway, the point of all this is that using ranged weapons against Cybie still isn't a viable option for this challenge, because even though you aren't taking much damage from his rockets, the knockback will be throwing you around like a rag doll, and you won't get much of a chance to hit him back.  I recognize that my chosen strategy of charging him with a Chainsaw is very luck dependant, but it's the only strategy that I can imagine working.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 00:24 by Tormuse »
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

Bloax

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Wouldn't getting into a position where he can't fling you offscreen (i.e. ahead of a pillar so that the knockback will only knock you into it) be a solution to the knockback problem?
of course that implies getting there in the first place
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Tormuse

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Wouldn't getting into a position where he can't fling you offscreen (i.e. ahead of a pillar so that the knockback will only knock you into it) be a solution to the knockback problem?
of course that implies getting there in the first place

It would have to be one of the outer walls, since he'll just blow away any pillars you try to brace yourself against, but it's possible.  A bigger problem is gathering enough ammo to kill him.  In all my attempts at this challenge, it's been a mad scramble to get to the exit; if I stop to gather supplies, I die.  Finding a shell box has proven to be an uncommon occurence and I don't think I've ever found a Super Shotun, Jackhammer, Plasma Shotgun, Laser Rifle, or Power Battery.  The only weapon in Papilio's list that I have a decent chance of finding is the Plasma Rifle, (since they're dropped by Commandoes) but how the heck can I expect to gather enough cells to kill a Cyberdemon, which has 450 hitpoints?  (I don't have to do the calculations to know that's a lot of cells!)

EDIT:  Also, 9.1 DPS means that Cybie will get a chance to shoot you 20 times, (on average, but probably more since you need to spend time getting into position) and that's assuming you use your power mod on the Plasma Rifle instead of the red armour and the bulk mod on the red armour instead of the shotgun as I have been doing.  With enough med packs, I suppose it's theoretically possible, but I tend to burn through med packs like crazy in this challenge.  This strategy for dealing with the Cyberdemon significantly impairs what I've been trying to do for everything else leading up to the Cyberdemon and it's still quite luck-based; I don't think it's much less luck-based than hoping for invulnerability or berserk pack.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 10:14 by Tormuse »
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos
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