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Author Topic: Question on Arach Caves  (Read 5182 times)

Pigmonkey

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Question on Arach Caves
« on: March 16, 2007, 14:34 »

I know that there is a certain amount of chance that the gamer will encounter a "wide open level" (one where they may be attacked by a large amount of creatures at once without any walls to stop the advance) on any given level.  But I recently died due to the fact that I encountered a level with dozens of cacodemons AND THEN went directly to the Arach Caves level afterwards. Is there any way to prevent events such as these from occuring, or is this part of the game programming. I don't think its a "bug" per se, but it just seems somewhat awkward.
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BDR

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 14:50 »

You think it's awkward to have two of the same type of level one after the other?  I'd have to disagree; it's not like having two hell city levels or complexes in a row hurt any...
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DaEezT

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2007, 04:18 »

Having two caves directly after each other is really tough luck.
It would be nice if this couldn't happen, but I don't think the chances for that are high enough to warrant a change in the level generator.
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"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

Supernaut

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 04:58 »

I think even though it's tough, it is also nice to have this as a setting. I like extra random difficulty.
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TFoN

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 07:44 »

During some of my lower difficulty games, I am quite certain I had encountered as many as 3 cave levels in a row. I only lived to discover the 3rd level of caves due to the easy game. I doubt I would have had as much luck with harder ones. Point is, this seems to me needlessly unhealthy, and should IMO be tweaked.

Valkeera

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 02:00 »

I once encountered THREE Arach caves in a row, too. I managed to clear two of them, and I died in the third practically atop the stairs. A pity, it was a nicely going AoDr challenge... :-/
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Angel of Death 007

TFoN

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 07:04 »

AoDr?

BDR

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 20:03 »

Angel of Darkness - The least spoken of (and interesting, after a fashion) challenge.
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Rabiat

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 13:14 »

After 14 deaths in 0.9.8.5. I made my first standard win yesterday on too young to die (I know...). I didn't get past L19 before, but yesterday's mortem says I've played through six cave levels (on levels 14, 17, 18, 21, 22, 23). It didn't seem terribly difficult. Maybe it's because killing Arachs isn't extremely hard on minimum difficulty - somehow they're relatively easy to kill in melee even without the LS. I may have stumbled across a few lucky Inv globes, though. ;)
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BDR

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 19:24 »

After 14 deaths in 0.9.8.5. I made my first standard win yesterday on too young to die (I know...). I didn't get past L19 before, but yesterday's mortem says I've played through six cave levels (on levels 14, 17, 18, 21, 22, 23). It didn't seem terribly difficult. Maybe it's because killing Arachs isn't extremely hard on minimum difficulty - somehow they're relatively easy to kill in melee even without the LS. I may have stumbled across a few lucky Inv globes, though. ;)

3 things to note:

1. This topic is about cave levels coming successively/in a row, not cave levels by themselves. :P Though you did apparently go through 2 and later 3 of them in a row, so...

2. You're playing on minimum difficulty, and...

3. You're playing a pure melee character, which has been previously noted as unbalanced. :P
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Rabiat

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 00:54 »

I agree with you on the difficulty level, which probably messes up generation/survival probabilities. But there in fact were consecutive cave levels (17,18 and 21,22,23, even if the Mortuary turned up after 22). Also I was not playing a pure melee character (despite defensive traits) - mostly used the shotgun, but found it easier to survive Arachs in melee range (again, probably the only reason I survived this was the difficulty level). But I trust my experience isn't very reliable as this was the first game I ever finished.
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TFoN

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2007, 05:13 »

Arachs are very weak melee fighters, so your experience's well founded. The problem is when you're playing a purely ranged char, which is mostly necessary on harder difficulties. Also, it's likely that you met less Arachs in those caves than you would have on harder difflvls.

Fingerzam

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2007, 05:51 »

I think this is something you just have to learn to survive. The game is supposed to be random, so sometimes you get harder games and sometimes easier, but if you are well prepared, these shouldn't be that big of a problem.
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Zarin

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Re: Question on Arach Caves
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2007, 10:12 »

Well,
sometimes the game is just a bitch.  I once had a game where I didn't get any large med-packs (I did see one former captain and one Baron use them :) and very few small ones - fortunately, including all four from the entrance - but that's it.  I survived until quite deep on a few Supercharge globes, all guaranteed (Arena, Chained Court, Halls of Carnage) and a few Berserker packs, but then got creamed when a Baron destroyed a wall behind me, opening the way for another Baron and a couple of Cacodemons or Knights, maybe even commandos or Arachs (I don't remember exactly whom).

As for the original question, I did encounter two Arach caves in a row during my only legitimate (not save-scummed) win.  I went shottyman route, which is probably the worst for such places (even Double SG doesn't cover 360o), and managed to survive by burning through all of my med-packs and shotgun shells, and then switching to chainsaw to finish off the few remaining ones.  This was on medium (hey, not too rough!) difficulty, and by then I had Ironman(3)/TaN(2), which is immensely helpful.

I think this is just the part of the game and you simply learn to deal with it.

FWIW,
    Zarin.

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