Chaosforge Forum

  • August 11, 2020, 22:26
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [All]

Author Topic: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D  (Read 6059 times)

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile

I doubt I'm remembered at all, but a few years ago I created a playthru thread for this game http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6770.0.html. I was, and still am, a noob but I had alot of fun with it.

Flash forward almost three years and I got a new computer! When transferring files, I rediscovered this game and started playing it again. I am consistently getting my ass handed to me, mostly due to sloppy play, but I'm getting better all the time. Anyway, on to the questions.

To start with, I need advice on armor. I am consistently constructing Tactical Boots now (first two A mods go to boots right away), but I'm still struggling with what to wear for armor. I'm rolling with two different play styles right now, MAD shotguns and Sharpshooter pistols. I've tried Tactical armor, but I always get chewed up with no levels in Hellrunner/Dodgmaster. My best runs so far I simply modded some red armors with B and T early to save space, later converting them to Fireproof red and Ballistic red once their durability wore down (the free red from Phobos Anomaly lasted me a long time B modded). I eventually died due to being too stupid to heal before going down a floor, but hey that's not my armor's fault xD

Anyway, what should I be looking for? I seem to always be toting around a backpack full of mods with no use for them, esp on MAD runs, hoping to find armors worth modding out to save my bacon.

Second question is regarding traits. Obviously when running MAD or Sharpshooter I want to spec in everything leading directly to the Master trait. This is VERY restrictive for Sharpshooter, and only slightly less so for MAD. No worries, comes with the territory. My question is what traits should I be looking at AFTER I grab my Master? MAD is HIGHLY restricting (no hellrunner OR Finnesse ;_; ) and Sharpshooter only slightly less so. I've honestly only even gotten Sharpshooter once before getting blown away by the double Shambler fight in Deimos lab, much less any traits after it. On my MAD runs, I usually grab Ironman (it's the trait I can see the most results out of immediately), hoping the extra HP will keep me moving. I usually grab a second rank of Badass at level 5 as well (typically going Reloader > Reloader > Shottyman > Badass > Badass > MAD > ???) but I'm slowly realizing that I would probably be MUCH better off with either getting Ironman sooner or simply getting Tough As Nails.

Side question, but related. How does Son Of A Bitch affect shotgun damage. Adding +1 to 8d3 sounds.... underwhelming to be honest, but adding +1 per die sounds broken as fuck on the other side. Is it simply a trait that is more useful with weapons that pump out larger numbers of low damage shots (notably chain weapons)?


TL;DR version:

1) What should I be doing for armor?
2) Good trait builds for MAD and Sharpshooter runs?
3) How does SoB affect different types of weapons?
Logged

papilio

  • Second Lieutenant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 162
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2016, 05:04 »

For MAD, whizkid is blocked;

weapon : Jackhammer (if possible), super shotgun(P) (if possible), assault shotgun(P) (if possible), tactical shotgun

armor : red armor(P), red armor(O) (if possible), powered red armor (= red armor+PN)
tower shield is simply a crap.

boots : plasteel boots(A)


Trait builds for MAD/MSs:

MAD : Rel-Rel-SM-Bad-TaN-MAD-TaN-Bad-(Iro or SoB, whatever you want)

MSs : SoG-SoG-SoG-EE-EE-EE-MSs-WK-WK-HR-HR-DM-SoG-SoG-HR-(whatever you want)




SoB is good for every type of weapons, but it is tended to be used for rapidfire weapon based build.

SoB for melee : useless (Bru1 is better than SoB3)
SoB for pistol : useless (SoG1 is better than SoB1)
SoB for shotguns : not bad, but not that worthy. 8d3+1 makes little difference between 8d3
SoB for rapidfire : great. SoB2 makes plasma rifle 1d7 (1~7) → 2+1d7 (3~9) for each shot

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 05:11 by papilio »
Logged
0.9.9.7 (after reset)
Cyberdemon Chaos Mjr. General
Medals: 43/43
Badges: 26/26/26/25/23/7[/color

Evilpotatoe

  • Backer
  • Major
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 316
  • Lost Soul corpse
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2016, 10:13 »

1)
For armors, you basically have to choose between "dodge" and "tank".
  • If you often get hit, P-modded red is probably the greateast usual suit you'll get.  (The ideal is AOP, or Powered-red, +P if possible)
  • If you manage to get hit rarely, you can afford to use weaker suits.  I stopped using tactical armors, but usually play with green (both have give a good movespeed, a the cost of a dubious protection).
    Your best suit when playing that way is a phaseshift (with AOP, of course :))
Overall, I wouldn't advise to B-mod an armor, since it costs movespeed.  Unless you want to make it nanofiber, but IMO, they are worthless without an added P (so I'd forget it for MAD)

Don't underestimate the movespeed. There's a reason why I prefer green over blue or red : it makes a huge difference !
I often switch to red around hell, since revenants (and mancubi) can be deadly, but by that time, I usually have A-modded tac boots, and A modded armor.

And yep, outside of AO100+, I always go for Tac boots (+A : I don't mod assemblies without WK2 usually).



2)
Not much advices to give here, but you might consider playing masterless.  As you noticed, masteries can be quite... constraining.
About MAD, I think I'd pick BER, but I guess anything is OK.
For MSS, I'd say WK (since gun really suck, and some improvements really help), then, anything.


3)
SOB is crap for melee (and BFGs :o))
SOB can be paired with SOG, but I doubt it's really worth it if you go pistols only.  If you also use shotguns or rapid fire, it can be worth it... but then, I'm not sure you should pick SOG :)
SOB is of course very efficient with rapid fire, since it's what it has been designed for.  Just skip the 5th level to avoid getting knockback.
SOB is quite good with shotguns, but I'm not sure it's necessary with a MAD build, which already gives an insane dmg output.

I consider SOB is "the best skill". Well, this is quite subjective, of course, but it looks like the most efficient to play damageless, which is more or less what most angels challenges is about, so I ended-up picking it on every run.
Here is a sample of SOB effect on shotguns :
I always play with shotguns, and now try to get Hell's arena pwnage medal with each of my N! runs.  Since I suck, I use INT2+SOB1, but I often fail at knocking some monster back, and get hit or have to run because of my crappy damages.
  • This doesn't happen when I play HA with SOB2, since failing to knockback is really rare, and would "never" happen with SOB3.
  • Without SOB, I just have too much difficulties to knock-back even a simple demon.  I often get hit, and can't abuse of cornershooting, which makes the game harder and more complicated (like... needing to think and have good placements instead of just mindlessly alternating phases pressing "f f r" (kill) and ", 5" (stand still waiting for xp to come))
Its worth noting that a P roughly equals two levels of SOB for a shotgun, but I still love that early SOB2 or 3, since you get it WAY before the P mods, and it stacks anyway (try an elephant gun, or a P3 regular shotty, and you'll understand how fun it can be :)
    Overall, about shotguns :
    • I personally stick with regular shotty all game long, but the best is the tactical one, which is more versatile.  I just hate having to pump (and have crappy damages) until it's fully modded.
    • Assault is the theorical best, of course, but you'll often find it too late, and it kinda needs the P to balance that missing dice anyway, so Tac is great enough.
    • Super shotty and Jackhammer are in separate leagues.  Both too rare to be reliable, but they give great damages (I don't really use either of them anymore, but this is another story :p)
    • Plasma is... well, good for gibbing the mortuary (and maybe for the reloading-bug-abuse), but crap elsewhere, since it ruins your covers, and eats way too much plasma.
Logged
Badges - [26/26/26/22/9/2] - 42/43

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 13:24 »

Thanks for the quick replies! This will help quite a bit.

I do want to touch on one thing briefly and that's my use of B modded reds. I'm aware how important move speed is, and I try to limit their use. I mainly grab them early on if possible specifically because of Former Sergants, where dodging is not possible, especially inside the Military Base vs the Elites. I'll usually try to lure those into melee range, but that's not always easy. If I get lucky and find an early red armor in a vault (or the guaranteed one in the Anomaly) this can help soak up a lot of damage if I can just stand my ground with a tactical shotty and quickly blow stuff away (since the move speed penalty doesn't kick in unless I actually move).

Once enemies actually start packing real damage (starting with Hell Knights), this stops being effective and I either finish modding them to Fireproof or Ballistic, which cuts the move speed penalty back to the base for red. Still pretty high, but dramatically lessened with Tactical boots, and the protection offered by a Ballistic red is significant until you start fighting Archviles/Revenants/Mancubi. Just gotta remember to swap before heading to the City of Skulls xD
Logged

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 14:46 »

... I just found a Super Shotgun and an O mod in Hell's Armory, and Phaseshift Armor damn near next to my spawn point on the next floor down. Is it my birthday??
Logged

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 15:45 »

And I just found a Megasphere AND two Invunurability Spheres right before the entrance to the Vaults... What did I do to deserve this??
Logged

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 02:52 »

Not sure if anyone is interested, but that one turned out really well. I actually found ANOTHER Megasphere, and found a ton of Invulnerability spheres right before special levels. I was able to clear out the Vaults almost completely before it wore off. Even cleaned out the Mortuary and got the Angelic Armor. Only level I skipped was the Unholy Cathedral, since I never actually carry the Chainsaw with me on MAD runs. I have enough point blank damage.

Actually, I shelved my tactical shotgun and mostly used an Elephant gun. Since I was kiting a lot anyway, it was no problem to keep it reloaded. Much easier on ammo. Just pulled out the Super Shotty when the time came to blow everything away.

-------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Skye, level 12 Cacodemon Corporal Marine,
 nuked the Mastermind at the Hell Fortress.
 He survived 146049 turns and scored 136371 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 52 minutes and 33 seconds.
 He didn't like it too rough.

 He killed 855 out of 855 hellspawn. (100%)
 This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 10
  Levels completed : 10

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Medal of Prejudice
  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Grim Reaper's Badge
  Hell Armorer Badge
  Hell Champion Medal
  Veteran Bronze Badge
  Reaper Bronze Badge
  Reaper Silver Badge
  Reaper Gold Badge
  Arachno Bronze Badge
  Scavenger Bronze Badge
  Scavenger Silver Badge
  Scavenger Gold Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ................................................|......|..#
  .................................................||..|..||#
  ............................................|......|.||...#
  ................................................|...|||.|.#
  .................................................|...|....#
  ....................................................||||||#
  ....................................................}|....#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ....................................................X.....#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 55/70   Experience 69296/12
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +3  ToDmg Melee +3

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Ironman          (Level 1)
    Tough as nails   (Level 3)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 3)
    Reloader         (Level 2)
    Badass           (Level 1)
    Shottyman        (Level 1)
    Army of the Dead (Level 1)

  Rel->Rel->SM->TaN->Bad->MAD->TaN->SoB->SoB->Iro->SoB->TaN->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   Angelic Armor [3/7] (29%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   super shotgun (9d4)x2 [0/2] (P1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   tactical boots [0/0] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   elephant gun (12d3) [1/1]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] missile launcher (6d6) [3/4]
    [b] fireproof red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [c] phaseshift armor [2] (O)
    [d] shotgun shell (x70)
    [e] shotgun shell (x50)
    [f] shotgun shell (x70)
    [g] rocket (x9)
    [h] small med-pack
    [i] small med-pack
    [j] small med-pack
    [k] small med-pack
    [l] large med-pack
    [m] large med-pack
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] large med-pack
    [p] large med-pack
    [q] firestorm weapon pack

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 0%    torso 25%   feet 0%   
    Melee      - internal 0%    torso 25%   feet 0%   
    Shrapnel   - internal 0%    torso 25%   feet 0%   
    Acid       - internal 25%   torso 25%   feet 25% 
    Fire       - internal 25%   torso 25%   feet 25% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    103 former humans
    68 former sergeants
    33 former captains
    115 imps
    42 demons
    262 lost souls
    49 cacodemons
    30 hell knights
    35 barons of hell
    44 arachnotrons
    5 former commandos
    17 pain elementals
    25 revenants
    5 mancubi
    6 arch-viles
    5 elite former humans
    2 elite former sergeants
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 shambler
    1 lava elemental
    1 agony elemental
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind
    1 John Carmack
    1 Arena Master

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
  On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
  On level 7 he marched into the Military Base.
  On level 7 he assembled a elephant gun!
  On level 7 he assembled a tactical boots!
  He purified his fellow comrades.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he entered Hell's Armory.
  He destroyed the evil within and reaped the rewards!
  On level 11 he witnessed the Wall.
  He massacred the evil behind the Wall!
  On level 12 he found the City of Skulls.
  He wiped out the City of Skulls.
  On level 14 he ventured into the Spider's Lair.
  He cleared the Lair, kickin' serious spider ass!
  Level 15 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 15 he assembled a fireproof armor!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  Level 19 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
  On level 19 he found the Charch's Null Pointer!
  He cracked the Vaults and cleared them out!
  On level 20 he was foolish enough to enter the Mortuary!
  On level 20 he found the Angelic Armor!
  He managed to clear the Mortuary from evil!
  On level 22 he entered the Lava Pits.
  He managed to clear the Lava Pits completely!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  He nuked level 24!
  He defeated the Mastermind and found the TRUE EVIL!
  Then finally in Hell itself, he killed the final EVIL.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You are hit! The missile hits the revenant. The revenant dies.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a revenant (severely wounded) | pool of blood | [ m ]ore
 The revenant dies. You are hit!
 You use a large med-pack. You feel fully healed.
 You use an envirosuit pack. You feel protected!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a revenant (unhurt) | floor | [ m ]ore
 You are hit! Your Angelic Armor is damaged!
 You are hit!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : John Carmack (almost dead) | floor | [ m ]ore
 You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You
 hear the scream of a freed soul! John Carmack dies. Congratulations! You
 defeated John Carmack! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 68 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 59 of those were killed.
 And 7 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 2 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 1 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------


Anyway, back to questions. A pretty simple one. From a pure damage blocked perspective, is it better to have higher Armor or more resists?

For instance, green armor only has 1 point of armor but has 15% bullet and Shrapnel resistance. Blue has 2 Armor but 20% Plasma resistance. Red has 4 armor and 25% Fire resistance.

So when tanking Shrapnel damage from former Sergeants, is green more effective that blue? what about red (probably not tbh)? Same for plasma, is blue's resistance better than red's 4 armor for blocking plasma damage? And then you have stuff like the Medical/Duelists armors with lots of resists but medium range Armor... Just trying to understand what the best way to block damage is. I've been carrying around blue armors specifically to fight Shamblers. Arachtrons, and Former Commandos with (holy crap Commandos hurt)
Logged

Evilpotatoe

  • Backer
  • Major
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 316
  • Lost Soul corpse
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 14:58 »

In term of protection, I think resistances are negligible for "basic" armors compared to the flat damage block.
One thing I like with green is that it looks "seargeant proof", but 1 protection point is bad, and 15% block will reduce only 0 or 1 damage from bullets (2 or 3 from shells ?  I never checked calculations.  maybe they can be found on the wiki).  The real value is just that it doesnt cripple movespeed.

For blue.. quite the same : 2 flat armor is better, but 20% of... 1-7 ?  and less for spiders if I'm correct ?  Since plasma divides armor by 2, it looks like the max reduction to expect would be 1 from % and 1 from the halved 2 flat points.  It may be good for shots doing an average of 4, but against anything else, this armor is very close to the green : it sucks.

Red is the efficiency : it gives you 4 agains weak attacks, which is doubled agains sergeants (shrapnel damages are bad vs armors). 4/2 still gives you decent resistance to plasma (so, what use for a blue ? :), and the 25% fire res do help agains the late game enemies.  Its only real weaknes is the ms penality.

Of course, some energy shielded vests or other suits are good too, but take a Necroarmor and you'll see that %res are not necessary to get a good protection.

If your question was also about the value of fireproof / ballistic, well, I don't craft either of them.  I think fireproof can be good vs Cybie, but it costs mods, and has a limited durability, while carrying a chainswaw and picking BER doesn't have those limitations.
Ballistic is quite the same, it's just more for UC than Cybie.
Anyway, while I think both those suits might have some use, they also both weaken you against a dangerous attack type, which shouldn't be overlooked, and IMO makes them useless outside of some very situational cases.  Also, there is no juggler for armors, so you'll most of the time be forced to lose HP when you get into situations your armor isn't designed to face.
Logged
Badges - [26/26/26/22/9/2] - 42/43

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2016, 15:57 »

Nah, the reason I was asking about this was specifically regarding Green vs Blue for dealing with Sergants and Blue vs Red for dealing with the Shambler in the Armory. For pretty much every other case, something in clearly better.

Honestly, I wish exotic armor dropped a bit more frequently. I'm lucky to find one piece every few runs. Considering how many different exotics armors there are, it'd be nice if they showed up a bit more often, maybe in Vaults?


As a side note, I think I'm gonna start trying to do my Sharpshooter runs on HMP. HNTR takes too long to ramp up. I think I'm practiced enough now that HMP shouldn't be too challenging.
Logged

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2016, 03:29 »

Ok, actively trying to suck less and learn good habits. I'm trying to get in the habit of gift dropping and patience. I understand there is a way to set it so that the Wait command (default key is ".") runs infinitely until you spot an enemy? Knowing how to do that would be GREATLY helpful, as in currently feels like I am likely to break my damn keyboard to keep cycling Wait one turn at a time. Something something "run wait" right?
Logged

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2016, 04:29 »

Run-wait exists. By default, the key sequence is ,. (comma, period). The maximum "runwaiting" length can be set in config.lua, the parameter is called MaxWait.

Note that waiting always takes 1.0s, without regard to your movespeed. Thus, when runwaiting, a fast enemy may enter your sight and then get another action before your last "wait" command ends.
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 04:44 »

Can I safely assume this means the other run commands are also comma + button? Like comma + D runs left for awhile? If so, does it also auto-stop on seeing an enemy?
Logged

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 04:54 »

Can I safely assume this means the other run commands are also comma + button? Like comma + D runs left for awhile? If so, does it also auto-stop on seeing an enemy?
All correct.
To be precise - it's not comma _plus_ button, but comma _then_ button :).
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 05:04 »

Sweet. I'll probs only use that for after level cleanup, but it's still helpful to know.

I went ahead and reset my max wait to 100, which should help alot.

Since you're an expert on Sharpshooter builds, any general advice on what I should be doing in general? I've been playing on HNTR mode and sucking, but I tried a few HMP runs today. The extra XP was good, but I got chewed up more often than not by Former Captains with chain guns :/
Is it better to suck it up in hopes of eventually getting less deadly early runs or should I keep working at HNTR while I get better at the game?

Also, what's your opinion on special levels as a pistol wielder? Obviously UC and City Of Skulls are gonna suck (at least without a Plasma pistol). I generally do two rounds of Hell's Arena. I read somewhere on here that doing two rounds and then leaving is the most efficient way, since it gets decent benefit from the Arena while also leaving you doing the "easy" Chained Court. I pretty much did EVERYTHING except UC on my MAD runs, since it starts off so strong and never really falls off. I even cleared the Mortuary with "just" a Super Shotgun.
Logged

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2016, 08:32 »

Yeah, former captains can be a major pain in the ass, especially since they start appearing right on level 2 on HMP. Even bigger problem comes on UV, with hell knights starting to appear on level 3 ...

Are you playing Angel of Marksmanship, or standard game? In standard game it's a good idea to carry a shotgun for corner/radarshooting or against clusters of enemies, at least until you get a few levels under your belt. If you aim for MSs, pistols start to outperform shotguns at about SoG3 + EE1. Obviously, shotguns are out of consideration on AoMr.

Generally as a MSs, runwaiting in a safe spot is the safest strategy - let your prey come to you. With this approach, you don't care that much about movespeed, so you can afford to wear stronger armour, even with movespeed penalty. Especially in the beginning, a demon may still get into melee range before you're able to kill it and it may get a bite of you, but you should be fine with SoG3 + EE1.

As far as weapons go, your very first action in the game should be slapping the starting T-mod on your starting pistol. With SoG1, your firing time would be 0.64s - you'll have a fair chance of getting in two shots before an enemy can react. A high power pistol starts to shine as soon as SoG3 - with an average damage of 10 you have a good chance of oneshotting any former human and threeshotting a demon, good enough to offset the lower magazine capacity. Also remember that reloading a pistol takes 1.2s and switching to prepared weapon takes only 0.8s - use this to your advantage as much as possible. Of course, if you find any better weapon, especially the combat pistol, your times will be quite easier.

I can't really say much about HNTR vs. HMP difference, since nowadays I mostly play on UV :). Personally, I stayed at HNTR and when I could grab wins reliably, I jumped straight to UV - but that is only up to you. On UV, Sharpshooter can kick in before Phobos Anomaly.

About Arena and CC: Harder CC is very, very tough on AoMr, so the "two levels of Arena and easier CC" is perfectly valid. It means more experience than winning the Arena and then having to skip the harder CC. On the other hand, winning the Arena on AoMr rewards you with a P-mod and an ammochain, which helps greatly with mid-combat reloading. On UV, I usually win the Arena and skip CC.

Military Base / Phobos Lab: Pray for Military Base. By that time, you should have little problems oneshooting formers (though elites can still be trouble), and you'll find enough ammo for the rest of the game. Phosob Lab is tough on AoMr - the demons in the northeast part of the level will usually not come to you, so you'll have little time to kill them. And on UV, nightmare demons are plentiful there - entering the level almost equals suicide.

Hell's Armory and Deimos Lab are quite easy for a Sharpshooter, although you will need a blue armor or two and some medpacks for the dual Shambler fight in Deimos Lab. Unless you're very low on medpacks, it's definitely worth a try.

The Wall and Containment Area are straight out of consideration, unless you're lucky to find the Anti-Freak Jackal or a blaster, or you assembled an energy pistol. Even then, the rewards in The Wall are not too impressive for an AoMr (the Containment Area at least has an extra ammochain).

City of Skulls / Abyssal Plains: No chance, unless you're lucky enough to have the White Death or an energy pistol (a blaster won't cut it, as you cannot reload it manually). And even then it's probably a bad idea.

Halls of Carnage / Spider Lair: The rewards are not suitable for AoMr at all. If you can do without the experience from these levels, just skip them.

Unholy Cathedral: Obviously a no-no for AoMr.

The Vaults: Unless you cleared harder CC before, probably not worth it.

Mortuary / Limbo: No chance without means of corpse disposal, and even then probably too tough.

Lava Pits / Mt. Erebus: Fairly easy to do, unless you get surrounded by lost souls. The Lava element is of great use for the final fight and/or a full win attempt.

Well. This should cover a Sharpshooter build well enough :).
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2016, 13:25 »

I'm mostly doing standard runs, so I do use a shotgun until around the end of Arena, when I pick up SoG3. After that I mostly use the pistol unless I need the knockback or AoE waveclear.

So using my initial T mod on the starting pistol is the smart move? Should I go ahead and mod it into a speedloader once I get the chance? Or is it better to save my first A mod to make a set of Tactical Boots?

Also, is there any reason to lug around the Chainsaw found in CC? I've been toting it with the thought that maybe I can clear UC with it, but I realize that with no melee traits and no Hatred skulls this is extremely unfeasable
Logged

Evilpotatoe

  • Backer
  • Major
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 316
  • Lost Soul corpse
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2016, 14:12 »

As long as you don't play AoMr, you can complete the arena AND cc+.  Btw, if you're not confident foing that, feel free to skip what you want.

A shotgun and a shell box should be enough to clear city of skulls.  Maybe you need a second shell box, since you have a pistol build, but it should not be that hard.  I'd say... try it, and if you get your hatred skulls, you may consider going for UC.

About speedloaders, I think I'd put my 1st A on boots (I'd wait WK to assemble anyway), then... depending of what I need the most.


Oh, and don't be afraid to set your maxRun higher.  I chose 10000, it looks like a good number to me :p
Logged
Badges - [26/26/26/22/9/2] - 42/43

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2016, 16:23 »

Oh, and don't be afraid to set your maxRun higher.  I chose 10000, it looks like a good number to me :p
Well, when I ran my ArchAo666 game, I set MaxWait to 666. Just because I could :).
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2016, 16:45 »

Well, if you do most of your runs in standard, then most of my comments regarding AoMr are quite moot :). With extra weapons, you can attempt to clear pretty much any special level you wish to clear. Even UC could be done, if you have some proper armor and medpacks to burn (don't forget - you can drown the demons in lava, if you have the movespeed to do so).

Off-topic: If you're a Scout with Finesse 2 and Hellrunner 2, you can clear UC even with no melee traits and no melee weapons at all. You will, however, need a boatload of patience.

I stand behind the initial T-mod being slapped on your starting pistol, at least if you intend to go the Sharpshooter way. 1.00s vs. 0.64s firing speed right off the bat is a huge difference, at least for the first levels. Even more so at higher difficulties.

Speedloaders ... Well, I'm not too much of a fan. It's nice to be able to reload half faster while mid-combat, but IMHO not having to reload mid-combat is a better way. As such, I only see a speedloader pistol as a very early weapon, which very quickly falls into the prepared slot behind your main damage dealer.
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2016, 00:02 »

Having my best Sharpshooter run yet. I actually cleared both Phobos and Deimos Labs, which actually got me high enough level to get my master trait AND I was able to assembly a HP pistol. Now I found enough mods to make a Stormbolter once I find another pistol xD. I actually cleared The Wall without taking a single hit due to the high knockback. I equipped an Ammo Chain to reduce my reload speeds and the Hell Barons only got a single shot off.

Currently packing an Assault Shotgun (I got a S mod from Deimos Lab and intend to make a plasmatic shrapnel assault shotgun as my secondary weapon) and am considering taking on City Of Skuils... I have some nice A and T modded reds, as well as the T needed to finish a Ballistic red... But if I do that, idk if I'll get another T mod for my Stormbolter. Not sure how much I care about skulls either, if I can get the PS assault shotty to gib corpses with in Mortuary.

Oh hell, dying's half the fun right? ONWARD TO GREATNESS (and loads of XP)
Logged

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2016, 02:12 »

Holy crap, I think this was the craziest run I ever had O_O

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Skye, level 13 Cacodemon Sergeant Technician,
 nuked the Mastermind at the Hell Fortress.
 He survived 459200 turns and scored 142466 points.
 He played for 5 hours and 14 minutes.
 He didn't like it too rough.

 He killed 784 out of 794 hellspawn. (98%)
 He held his right to remain violent.

 He saved himself 2 times.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 10
  Levels completed : 7

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Aurora Medallion
  Grim Reaper's Badge
  Hell Armorer Badge
  Armorer Silver Badge
  Heroic Bronze Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ...............................................%..........#
  ..........................................................#
  ................................................|.........#
  ...........................................X....}.%%......#
  ...............................................|.|........#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..............................................|..|..|.....#
  ..........................................................#
  ...............................................|||||......#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 42/60   Experience 74406/13
  ToHit Ranged +6  ToHit Melee +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Technician

    Ironman          (Level 1)
    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Son of a gun     (Level 5)
    Eagle Eye        (Level 3)
    Whizkid          (Level 1)
    Sharpshooter     (Level 1)

  SoG->SoG->SoG->EE->EE->EE->MSs->WK->Iro->Fin->Fin->SoG->SoG->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   Angelic Armor [3/7] (42%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   missile launcher (6d6) [1/4]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   phaseshift boots [4/4] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] high power pistol (2d6) [0/4]
    [b] plasmatic assault shotgun (7d3) [0/6]
    [c] red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [d] red armor [2/4] (26%)
    [e] phaseshift armor [2/2] (100%)
    [f] Malek's Armor [3/3] (100%)
    [g] rocket (x12)
    [h] large med-pack
    [i] envirosuit pack
    [j] technical mod pack
    [k] agility mod pack
    [l] bulk mod pack
    [m] bulk mod pack
    [n] bulk mod pack
    [o] Enviroboots [0]

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 0%    torso 25%   feet 0%   
    Melee      - internal 0%    torso 25%   feet 0%   
    Shrapnel   - internal 0%    torso 25%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    101 former humans
    70 former sergeants
    7 former captains
    109 imps
    51 demons
    241 lost souls
    25 cacodemons
    33 hell knights
    32 barons of hell
    37 arachnotrons
    4 former commandos
    11 pain elementals
    19 revenants
    20 mancubi
    13 arch-viles
    2 nightmare demons
    2 bruiser brothers
    2 shamblers
    1 lava elemental
    1 agony elemental
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind
    1 John Carmack

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena before it got too hot.
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 7 he sneaked into the Phobos Lab.
  On level 7 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
  He broke through the lab.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he entered Deimos Lab.
  On level 9 he assembled a high power weapon!
  On level 9 he assembled a tactical boots!
  He destroyed the evil within and reaped the rewards!
  On level 11 he witnessed the Wall.
  He massacred the evil behind the Wall!
  On level 12 he found the City of Skulls.
  He wiped out the City of Skulls.
  On level 14 he assembled a plasmatic shrapnel!
  On level 14 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 17 he assembled a fireproof armor!
  On level 18 he found the Enviroboots!
  On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
  On level 19 he found the Acid Spitter!
  He managed to scavenge a part of the Vaults treasures.
  On level 20 he was foolish enough to enter Limbo!
  On level 20 he found the Angelic Armor!
  He managed to clear Limbo from evil!
  On level 22, hell froze over!
  On level 22 he arrived at Mt. Erebus.
  On level 22 he found the Malek's Armor!
  He managed to raise Mt. Erebus completely!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  He nuked level 24!
  He defeated the Mastermind and found the TRUE EVIL!
  Then finally in Hell itself, he killed the final EVIL.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You dodge! The missile hits the hell knight. The hell knight dies.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : John Carmack (almost dead) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the revenant. The lost soul hits you.
 You reload the missile launcher. You dodge! The missile hits the lost soul.
 The lost soul dies. You dodge! The missile hits the hell knight. The hell
 knight dies. The missile hits the hell knight. You feel vulnerable again.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : John Carmack (almost dead) | hell knight corpse | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits John Carmack. Your Angelic Armor is damaged!
 Unknown command. Press "?" for help.
 Your weapon is empty.
 You reload the missile launcher. You dodge! The missile hits John Carmack.
 John Carmack dies. Congratulations! You defeated John Carmack! Press
 <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 77 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 67 of those were killed.
 And 7 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 3 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 2 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Everything was fine thru City of Skulls, and as you can see from the mortem, I actually managed to clear most of the special levels. I found a ton of great loot, including Malek's, both pieces of the Phaseshift, the Enviroboots (which straight up saved my ass, would not have won without them), and I don't even remember what all else... But the game quit giving me ammo. ENTIRELY. Well, except for energy cells and rockets xD

If I hadn't been toting a shell box and an ammo chain the entire game, I wouldn't have made it. Every special level I got was the variety with no formers (like Limbo rather than Mortuary) so I couldn't resupply. I finished the game with the mods to make a Stormbolter but no pistol to put them in. I had more armor than I knew what to do with (legit ditched two energy shielded vests, a balistic vest, and an energy shield in addition to what I was still carrying) but not much in the way of firepower xD

I actually had to switch to my missile launcher to finish off JC. Fortunately, I was lucky enough to find an invulnerablity orb just before Dis, so I could save my Lava Element for the final fight. Went down there with no shotty ammo, an Ammo chain with 30 bullets in in, and 18 rockets. Holy crap
Logged

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2016, 02:18 »

Good job - congratulations!
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2016, 12:47 »

I kinda want to do another Sharpshooter run after how that turned out. I feel a little jipped by running out of ammo and never building a solid weapon (my own fault in both cases obviously). Using giftdropping and run wait definitely made it much easier. I think I'm ready to try a few UV runs, but I expect to get destroyed xD

Tbh, the idea that appeals the most to me right now is trying Angel Of 100. I'd like to see what a true late game Sharpshooter build looks like and I know I'm unlikely to hit a full build in a standard run. Maybe I'll just do a few Angel Of Marksmanship instead xD
Logged

Tormuse

  • Elder
  • General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1606
  • More Angelic than not
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2016, 22:55 »

Hi all!  I see I'm a bit late to this party, but I still want to join in.  :D  Looks like most of your questions are pretty well answered, but I'll put in a few additions here and there.  :)  (Not even sure where to start, so this will probably be all over the place)  :P

Regarding trait selection, as a general rule, I always recommend to beginners of DoomRL to try getting lots of Tough as Nails and/or Ironman until you learn how to avoid damage and then get Son of a Bitch instead.  You look like you're pretty experienced at this point, so I would suggest you lean toward getting SoB at the beginning of the game and get TaN/Iro for late game when there are more instadeath type enemies.

For MAD build, I recommend SoB.  8d3+1 doesn't sound like much, but I find it adds up more quickly than you might expect.  Obviously, you get more bang for your buck with rapid-fire weapons, but it's still not to be underestimated for shotguns.

As for MSS, I recommend hiding a lot!  :)  The big drawback of pistol builds is that you can only take on one enemy at a time, so you want to isolate enemies as much as possible and take cover as much as possible.  (A prudent strategy in any game, really, but extra so for pistols)  Personally, I'm a big fan of Speedloader pistols, because they take away the pistol's other big drawback, more frequent reloading, but as you can see, others here disagree.  Different strokes for different folks; just get whatever suits your playstyle.  :)

Unless you're doing a weapon-restrictive challenge like AoMr or AoSh, I recommend taking the Chainsaw with you.  Any time you get a Berserk or Invulnerability sphere, it's a good way to deal massive damage while saving ammo.  same goes if you find armour with high melee protection, like ballistic vest/shield, or Shielded Armor.

Regarding run-waiting, there are actually three lines in the Config.LUA file that might interest you:  MaxRun, MaxWait, and RunDelay.  MaxRun affects how far you'll run in a given direction when using the "," run command, MaxWait affects how long you'll wait on the spot when you're using the "." wait command, and RunDelay affects how much realtime passes in between each individual move/wait action within the run.  I think the default value for RunDelay is 20, so if you're planning to do a lot of giftdropping, I recommend turning that down to one or even zero.  If it's set to zero, then as soon as you push the wait key, all of the wait actions happen instantly, which saves a lot of time.  Personally, I have mine set to one, mostly because I'm paranoid and don't like that much time passing without me being able to interrupt it, but you can set it to whatever suits your playstyle.

Also, congrats on your recent victories!  :D  I'd be interested to see what you do next, regardless of which challenge you want to try.  :)
Logged
Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

Thomas

  • DoomRL Wiki and Testing Ops
  • Elder Chaos Guard
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 881
  • How's it going?
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2016, 00:07 »

For MAD build, I recommend SoB.  8d3+1 doesn't sound like much, but I find it adds up more quickly than you might expect.  Obviously, you get more bang for your buck with rapid-fire weapons, but it's still not to be underestimated for shotguns.

To add to this - SoB is added after the distance penalty, so you're getting a bit more relatively than just +1 on your 16 average. It can be fairly important when you're fighting at mid-range and it turns your 9 in to a 10, giving you knockback.
Logged
Arch-Vile Chaos Major Thomas
[26/26/26/25/9/1]
Medals: 35/43 Specials: 69/67 Assemblies: 36/40

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2016, 02:33 »

Lots of good information here and I'm putting it to good use. I'll definitely use this topic as a bit of an on-going playthru commentary as well, so stop on by from time to time to see what shenanigans I've gotten into xD

I keep the Assemblies page of the wiki pulled up in browser and I alt-tab alot, and I tend to post here if something truly unusual has happened. I'll keep doing that. Idk how many mortems I'll post unless something really weird happens OR I have a question about something in the mortem.

It's good to know that SoB applies AFTER range modifiers. That's actually pretty big. My last MAD run, I actually did invest heavy in SoB and TaN both. My natural inclination is to stand my ground to unload as much DpS as possible (if I'm not reloading with Shottyman), so TaN suits me right down to the ground.

Is 10 damage the breaking point for knockback? I'm honestly not sure how that mechanic works entirely. Like, I seem to knock back Formers quite a bit with a shotgun but they only have 10 HP so I'm missing something.

As for speedloaders... I carry an Ammo Chain for a reason. If I know a big fight is about to go down (or even if I am not expecting to need my shotgun), I'll simply equip that along with my HP pistol. Suddenly my reload problems are gone xD. I do the same thing with a shell box and tactical shotgun.

Tbh, I haven't really been having reload issues once I get HP and MSS. The knockback is so frequent I just reload until my current target moves back in range. Only time this didn't work recently was in Limbo, which is obviously a much different scenario.


... I always find myself struggling to have enough space and have trouble justifying keeping the Chainsaw. That's something I've actually been meaning to ask about. What should I realistically be holding on to? For instance, are consumables (other than large health kits) really worth taking up precious storage space? Like, I generally just pass phase packs on by. I'm usually carrying 3+ mods (too many I know, but I'm usually holding them for a Stormbolter or something once I hit WK1), a rocket launcher of some sort, a shotgun (unless it's prepared), an ammo chain (could be prepared), a shell box, a stack of rockets, a stack of shotgun shells, 3 stacks of 10 mm ammo, at least one enviro suit (prefer 2, just in case). The remaining slots are taken up with whatever oddities I've found. Stuff like 3+ pieces of armor (in various states of decay and/or exotics), as many med kits as I can justify room for, skulls if I have them (like to have them for Mortuary tbh), the BFG 9000 if I haven't been to Mortuary yet (at which point I dump it), a thermie, and occasionally the Arena Master's Staff. I always try to keep a thermie on me if I find one as well as getting the lava element.

Also, been toying with the idea of picking up a side-discipline in shotguns on my MSS runs. After I get MSS, grab one rank of WK and then two of Reload and Shottyman. My last run showed me how important having a backup weapon could be when the game completely quit giving me 10mm ammo. I was able to make it, and ranks in Finesse certainly helped, but having Shottyman would have meant me taking ALOT less damage. It was kind of a very specific unusual circumstance, though.

Anyway, questions for this round:

1) How exactly does knockback work?
2) HALP PLS with inventory management!?
3) Is it worth getting Shottyman on non-shotgun runs late game or is it better to focus on making the most out of your chosen discipline?

A bit off topic: Started watching Markiplier play the new Doom game. It looks so fucking awesome. If it goes on sale during Steam's summer sale, I might have to pick it up AND I DON'T EVEN LIKE FPS GAMES
Logged

ZicherCZ

  • Chaos Knight
  • Supporter of Chaos
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • YADJHG - Yet Another Dead JupiterHellGuy
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2016, 03:06 »

Well, to your questions:
1) The knockback threshold for one tile is 12 damage for pistols and rapid-fire and 7 damage for shotguns and most explosions (multiple-tile knockback is entirely possible). The calculation, whether a monster is knocked back, ignores its armor and resistances. Knockback resistance (from armor and boots) is then applied to the knockback distance.
3) If you carry a shotgun or rocket/missile launcher as a backup weapon, it is IMHO quite worthwhile. The prerequisite, Reloader 2 is useful for any build that can spare traits anyway, so you need only one more trait.
Logged
DoomRL 0.997: Cyberdemon Brigadier General - Games: 217, Wins: 2/5/3/6/0, Medals: 18, Specials: 64, Asm: 39, Badges: 19/17/16/5/1/Are you kidding?
Jupiter Hell: Inner Circle - first tech build reached and working

Evilpotatoe

  • Backer
  • Major
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 316
  • Lost Soul corpse
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2016, 04:01 »

I keep the chainsaw not only because it saves some ammo or can make zerk pack more useful.
You'll often find yourself in melee, and chainsaw has a great DPS (which is even better after UC :). Killing monsters faster reduces damages.
Also, you sometimes want to stay melee (like vs mancubus or spiders). I don't use my usual shotgun in such a case (your HP pistol would have the same issue), and I don't carry ammo for my plasma gun, so the answer is melee again.

About SOB w/shotguns, I think I stopped using 7d3 shotguns when I noticed the HUGE difference it makes for knockback to have 2 less average damages. I always use a 8d3 now (reloading from one of my 3 shellboxes doesn't take more time than pumping anyway, and my doomguy is most of the time already OP by the time he could craft a tac shotty)
I was quite sure the damage was added after distance reductions, so I'm not surprised that it works so well.  I thought the treshold was 12dmg, but anyway, what counts is that some levels in SOB make the difference.  I don't care about the numbers too much.

About inventory, I always keep a phase device when I can.  Sometimes more, up to 3, but ammo will usually be more useful.  It can get you out of *really* nasty situations. (tip : When you don't have one, think of using rocket jump.  It's ideal for situations like... anomaly ambush whel playing AoHu).
You're right to dump the BFG.  I always keep it because... it's fun, thematic, and nice, but barely ever actually use it (even in the mortuary, where I rush to the nuclear one instead --sometimes using rocket jumps--).
I usually keep 2 skulls for mortuary, but rarely use the 2nd.
I only carry one suit for the pits/Erebus.  Taking some damages when running through some titles of acid / lava is not a problem.
I take thermies "because they are cool", but use them as fast as I can.  I nuke spidey the guaranteed way, with the nuke BFG from mort.  Alternatively, you can try to keep one for Cybie, or UC... but it's highly unreliable.  From a pure "efficiency" pov, I think there's no real reason to use them. You rarely need them, and the can make you miss stuff.
I always carry the staff (I'm a YAAM/conqueror/JC guy)
I avoid carrying unused mods.  I know what I need most of the times anyway, and rush WK to max mods usage and save slots.  Once my shotty is already P2 or P3, I put P on armors. A are for tac boots, then armors, B for Tac RL / (nanomachic or unused) plasma gun, then (unused) BFG, and T are for decoration.
I also thought I avoid carrying useless weapons but when thinking about it... I use mostly shotty / Chainsaw and RL, but always carry a plasma gun and a BFG, and sometimes keeps the missile launcher until HoC.
I usually have one extra armor (and sometimes up to 6/7 unused ones in the end, when I find some shielded vests, phaseshifts, Malek, Necro, Shielded... well, that's for decoration too, since I know I won't need them at that point)

I don't use shottyman.  It's useless when cornershotting, so I'd prefer going for DM, which will help me reach a safe spot. But aside of that subjective pov, I'd advise you to have "side-disciplines".  That's one of the reasons why I stopped using masteries, and nearly always pick BER : it makes me more versatile.
Logged
Badges - [26/26/26/22/9/2] - 42/43

Tormuse

  • Elder
  • General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1606
  • More Angelic than not
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2016, 04:13 »

Ah, the fact that it adds the SoB damage after calculating the range drop-off explains so much.  Good to know!  :)
Logged
Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
[26/26/26/26/18/9]
Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOijubEijdnrOja0kxXTKQ/videos

bolt_thundara

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Lost Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Long time, no see, DoomRL fans. Lots of questions :D
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2016, 21:25 »

Note to self for tomorrow: Do not try to play this game while buzzed. Dying due to casually strolling through acid on an otherwise decent run is no ok.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]