DoomRL > Discussion

Man, pistols really are hard mode for this game.

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ZicherCZ:
Well, it's Doom the Roguelike. Playing a camping sniper surely is out of flavour for the "Doom" part - but not as much for the "Roguelike" part. Run and gun playstyle simply doesn't work really well with turn-based roguelikes.

Note that for the most part I only talked about Sharpshooter, which I simply envision as a sniper, who takes his spot and if something sticks its head out, it gets blown off. And it works like wonder - see here and here.

If you wish more of "Doom" feeling, Bullet Dance and Gun Kata are much more straightforward builds, and even as a Technician you still can go masterless and pick whatever you want.

bolt_thundara:
Yeah, I finished my MAD run in my other topic and am now trying to set up a Sharpshooter run, before eventually doing *some* sort of Scout run for the first time (maybe a Cateye run to complete the Trifecta). I'd love to hear some good advice over there, since I am CONSISTENTLY getting my ass handed to me sometime right after Anomaly (assuming the run doesn't end in the first 10 minutes, of course). I'd rather keep this topic for discussion on fixing pistols rather than strategy tho.

I, in fact, tried Bullet Dance quite a bit several years ago but was never able to get that type of run going successfully. I intend to eventually try all three weapon mastery types with each class. Gunrunner, Fire Angel, and Ammochain all three look interesting in different ways. I'm holding off on melee builds until I suck less.

Shadowfury333:
I'm still of the opinion that having a flinching mechanic when hitting enemies would go a long way to improving the viability of run and gun, but overall I figure I'll just re-iterate that if you want to use pistols in a run-and-gun style, go for Gun Kata. The trick I've found with it is to run (as in hit Tab to enter run state) a lot, especially early on, since that often lets you get the jump on enemies so that SoG3+DG DPS can really work its magic (I typically go SoG-SoG-SoG-DG-HR-HR-DM-MGK). I don't know how viable it is in UV, and from what I've heard it isn't (too many enemies to effectively dodge, thus my flinch-on-hit suggestion), though in my own experience it is quite viable in HMP and below. Also, speedloader pistols are better than they seem, since while reload on kill is a thing, it's not a thing until you get MGK, and even then its only a thing if you kill in one clip, and you aren't going to be doing that in a boss battle or against lone tanky enemies.

I'm really not sure what Bullet Dance gets you other than a lot of reloading, and while Sharpshooter is considered the best pistol trait, you are going to be popping from cover to shoot a lot.

Tormuse:
My comments in no particular order:

I agree that a guaranteed Combat Pistol could be a welcome addition to the game and Hell's Armory/Deimos Lab would be a good place to put it.

I really like the idea of a flinching mechanic to improve the player's ability to fight in the open.  (That could be the game mechanic that replaces corner-shooting!)  :D  Of course, play-balancing this new mechanic would be a nightmare, so I doubt we'd see it introduced in a new version of DoomRL...  Hmm...  Jupiter Hell, maybe?  :)

Gun Kata is a fun build that I think is underrated.  (In some ways, I prefer it over Sharpshooter)  Bullet Dance, however, is total crap IMO.  You use up your bullets faster, which means more frequent reloading, (and frequent reloading is already a big drawback for pistol builds) and the fact that Eagle Eye is blocked means that more of those shots are going to miss.  (And the fact that HR and Brute are blocked hinders a lot of alternative strategies)  I wouldn't make any changes to Gun Kata or Sharpshooter, but I think Bullet Dance needs some adjustment.

As for new assemblies, the makers of the ZDoom mod, DoomRL Arsenal (seen here) had some neat ideas for new weapons and assemblies.  It's been a while since I played, but a couple that stand out in my memory are the Revolver, basic assembly for the pistol that has slower firing speed and reloading, but higher damage and accuracy, and the Mini-Missle Pistol, an advanced assembly for the Handcannon weapon that is sort of a pistol version of the Micro Launcher.

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