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[Tormuse]

So, this game was supposed to be Destroyer Diamond, (win at N! while taking 50 damage or less) but ended up being Destroyer Platinum instead.  (200 damage or less)  I tracked my damage throughout to help me know where I was with my goal and still managed to get Conqueror!  :)

My original goal was kind of setback from the beginning because I had already tried this a whole bunch of times in a row and was getting impatient and I took a whole lot of avoidable damage, first from a Former Human two steps into level 2 and then from carelessly going too close to a barrel when a Hell Knight was around on level 4.  (26 damage!  The biggest single hit of the game!)  I officially lost the Diamond at Phobos Anomaly where I took a pounding from Nightmare creatures for a total of 58 damage just from that one level, (Ouch!) and the runner-up for most damage on one level was 44 in Deimos Lab.  I thought, for a long time, that I was going to fail to get the Platinum too, but somehow, I managed to stay just barely under 200 for all of Hell.  (6 damage total out of all Hell levels!)

The most interesting thing about this run for me was that I got the guaranteed Dragonslayer to spawn in Unholy Cathedral!  (My second time to ever do that!)  It's long been theorized that you have to play the game damageless to get it, or that you have to play the special levels damageless, or at least UC damageless, or that you have to have 100% killrate, but I think this run sucessfully proves all of that wrong.  I had taken 191 damage up to that point, much of it during special levels including 6 damage in UC, and had a kill percentage in the 90s.  (I also got the guaranteed Berserker Armor in the Mortuary!)

As is usual for me these days, I recorded the whole game.  There were 5 and a half hours of actual gameplay.  (Lots of slow, tedious, plodding around, trying to avoid damage)  It says 14 hours in the mortem because I took *lots* of breaks.  This is a really mind-numbing challenge for me, because I'm really not that great at avoiding damage, so I wanted to approach every couple of levels fresh.  (That massive hit from the Hell Knight at the beginning in particular was due to tiredness)  Anyway, here are the videos:

Part 1 Featuring: Hell's Arena, Chained Court (Plus!), Military Base, Phobos Anomaly

Part 2 Featuring: Deimos Lab, Containment Area, Abyssal Plains, Spider's Lair, Tower of Babel

Part 3 Featuring: Unholy Cathedral, The Vaults, The Mortuary, Lava Pits, Dis, Hell Fortress

And in case anyone's wondering what I was doing during those breaks, I was mostly working on a 3D jigsaw puzzle I got for Christmas.  It's almost done and I'll post a picture of it later.  :)  (It's a pair of cats!)  :D

The only other thing noteworthy in the run is that I took a massive risk at the end of Deimos Lab by invoking the name of the RNG.  :P  I couldn't resist, though; the lab cache had two sniper mods in it.  Two freakin' sniper mods!  mods that max out accuracy in a challenge that maxes out accuracy.  *Facepalm*  Of course, there's also the alternate use of making a plasmatic shotgun, but I had just picked up a plasma shotgun a few minutes earlier, so there was no point.  Oh well...  The plasma shotgun was unbelievably useful anyway, especially in Mortuary, for clearing away corpses, so no complaints.  :)

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Tormuse, level 18 Apostle Chaos Mjr General Scout,
 nuked the Mastermind at the Hell Fortress.
 He survived 210079 turns and scored 1029702 points.
 He played for 14 hours, 22 minutes and 28 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 1771 out of 1856 hellspawn. (95%)
 He held his right to remain violent.
 He was an Angel of Max Carnage!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 11
  Levels completed : 11

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Cyberdemon's Head
  UAC Star (gold cluster)
  Aurora Medallion
  Conqueror Badge
  Untouchable Medal
  Angelic Badge
  Hell Armorer Badge
  Hell Arena Pwnage Medal
  Destroyer Gold Badge
  Destroyer Platinum Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  ..........................................................#
  .......................................|.|................#
  ................................................X.........#
  ..........................................................#
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 60/60   Experience 166526/18
  ToHit Ranged +12  ToHit Melee +12  ToDmg Ranged +3  ToDmg Melee +3

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Ironman          (Level 1)
    Finesse          (Level 3)
    Hellrunner       (Level 3)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 3)
    Juggler          (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Intuition        (Level 2)
    Whizkid          (Level 2)
    Triggerhappy     (Level 1)
    Cateye           (Level 1)

  Int->Int->HR->Fin->Jug->HR->DM->Fin->WK->WK->SoB->SoB->TH->MCe->Fin->SoB->HR->Iro->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   phaseshift armor [2/2] (100%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   BFG 9000 (10d6) [60/100]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   phaseshift boots [4/4] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   power battery (x10)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] tactical shotgun (9d3) [5/5] (P1)
    [b] rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1] (B2)
    [c] chaingun (1d8)x4 [40/40] (P2T2)
    [d] hyperblaster (2d4)x3 [40/40]
    [e] plasma shotgun (7d3) [0/30]
    [f] nuclear plasma rifle (1d8)x6 [31/31] (B1P1)
    [g] red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [h] ripper (6d6)
    [i] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [j] shotgun shell (x70)
    [k] rocket (x4)
    [l] power cell (x60)
    [m] power cell (x70)
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] large med-pack
    [p] lava element
    [q] antigrav steel boots [1/1] (100%) (A)
    [r] 10mm ammo chain (x250)
    [s] 10mm ammo chain (x250)
    [t] shell box (x100)
    [u] shell box (x100)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 0%    torso 30%   feet 0%   
    Melee      - internal 0%    torso 30%   feet 0%   
    Shrapnel   - internal 0%    torso 30%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    196 former humans
    151 former sergeants
    89 former captains
    267 imps
    124 demons
    465 lost souls
    69 cacodemons
    33 hell knights
    91 barons of hell
    43 arachnotrons
    27 former commandos
    63 pain elementals
    47 revenants
    14 mancubi
    37 arch-viles
    13 nightmare imps
    4 nightmare cacodemons
    8 nightmare demons
    7 elite former humans
    5 elite former sergeants
    7 elite former commandos
    2 bruiser brothers
    2 shamblers
    1 lava elemental
    1 agony elemental
    1 Angel of Death
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind
    1 John Carmack
    1 Arena Master

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
  He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
  On level 7 he marched into the Military Base.
  He purified his fellow comrades.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he entered Deimos Lab.
  On level 9 he assembled a ripper!
  On level 9 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
  He destroyed the evil within and reaped the rewards!
  On level 10 he found the Trigun!
  On level 11 he arrived at the Containment Area.
  He emerged from the Containment Area victorious!
  On level 12 he romped upon the Abyssal Plains.
  He slaughtered the beasts living there.
  On level 13 he assembled a antigrav boots!
  On level 13 he assembled a hyperblaster!
  On level 14 he ventured into the Spider's Lair.
  He cleared the Lair, kickin' serious spider ass!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 17 he found the Grammaton Cleric Beretta!
  On level 17 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
  He then destroyed the Unholy Cathedral!
  On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
  He cracked the Vaults and cleared them out!
  On level 20 he was foolish enough to enter the Mortuary!
  On level 20 he found the Berserker Armor!
  He managed to clear the Mortuary from evil!
  On level 22 he entered the Lava Pits.
  He nuked level 22!
  He managed to clear the Lava Pits completely!
  He left level 23 as soon as possible.
  Then at last he found Dis!
  He overloaded a nuclear BFG 9000 on level 24!
  He defeated the Mastermind and found the TRUE EVIL!
  Then finally in Hell itself, he killed the final EVIL.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You wear/wield : a plasma shotgun (7d3) [0/30] You feel vulnerable again.
 Carmack raises his hands and summons hellspawn!
 You prepare the BFG 9000 instantly!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : John Carmack (mortally wounded) | floor | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits the revenant. You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear
 the scream of a freed soul! The revenant dies. You hear the scream of a freed
 soul! The revenant dies. You hear the scream of a freed soul! The revenant
 dies. The revenant dies.
 You dodge!
 You don't have enough ammo to fire the BFG 9000! Press <Enter>...
 You quickly reload the BFG 9000.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : John Carmack (almost dead) | pool of blood | [ m ]ore
 The missile hits John Carmack. John Carmack dies. Congratulations! You
 defeated John Carmack! Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 1485 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 1163 of those were killed.
 8 of those were killed by something unknown.
 162 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 47 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 105 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 5 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 71 killed the bitch and survived.
 29 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------


[Q2ZOv]

I remember trying this (for like a hundred times) and having less that 50dmg before mortuary once and failing there. Why did you delay MCe that much? I remember that I was trying to get it ASAP and thinking it was worth it.

About phobos anomaly the way to go was always rocketjumping forward for me before the walls open. This way you can get out of sight not giving any chances to those N! monsters (just destroy the door beforehand) to damage you. You can also calculate the place where you will end up and either hide to the side of a doorway or move further, closer to bruiser brothers and with MCe you can see and shoot them at the door and they can't shoot at you.

[Sylph]

Awesome work! Well done!

When I read the title I was thinking 'AoMC cateye is definitely the way to go!'. Haha.

[Sereg]

So there I was, feeling all proud of my recent mortems, when along comes Tormuse, who posts a Nightmare! Conqueror Full Win with Untouchable Medal.

Well done, sir.

[Tormuse]

Why did you delay MCe that much? I remember that I was trying to get it ASAP and thinking it was worth it.

Cateye is good for open areas and arena-type levels, places with good sight lines, not so good for maze-like levels and close-quarters combat.  The biggest danger to taking damage is right at the beginning of the level, before I can establish myself, so I wanted to get Juggler and Dodgemaster early to help with that.  Also, I wanted to get Whizkid 2 earlyish to make use of all the mod packs I was expecting to get.  Cateye was always my eventual goal, but Intuition 2 was far more important for early detection of enemies, since I can see them through walls.

When I read the title I was thinking 'AoMC cateye is definitely the way to go!'. Haha.

It's the obvious choice.  :)

So there I was, feeling all proud of my recent mortems, when along comes Tormuse, who posts a Nightmare! Conqueror Full Win with Untouchable Medal.

Well done, sir.

Awww, hey!  Your achievements are pretty impressive too!  I read them and I fully intended to comment on them; I was just occupied with my own games the past couple of days and was too tired to string a few words together.  :P

EDIT:  AAAHH!  ARGH!  NOOOooooo!  D:

And in case anyone's wondering what I was doing during those breaks, I was mostly working on a 3D jigsaw puzzle I got for Christmas.  It's almost done and I'll post a picture of it later.  :)  (It's a pair of cats!)  :D

The puzzle is held together by a single vertical "spine" piece that runs through the whole thing and while I was fiddling with it, trying to figure out how to get it into the fully assembled cat, I accidentally dropped the puzzle and it fell on the floor in a hundred pieces!  :(  (Poor kitty!)

EDIT2:  I really couldn't figure out how it goes in, though...  one end of the spine is threaded so you can screw it in, and the other has a cap that's wider than the whole thing.  I tried putting the cap at the bottom and it sticks out and makes it so the whole thing can't stand without wobbling, and I tried putting it in the top, but then I can't get the top of the cats head on.  I feel like I'm missing something.  :|

(Sorry for going off-topic; it's just confounding me!)  :P

[Tormuse]

I doubt anyone's interested, but since I made a note of where and when I took damage throughout the game, I figure I might as well post it here for posterity:

Spoiler: Damage list (click to show/hide)

Level 2: 8 damage from a former human
Level 4: 26 damage from a Hell Knight
Level 5: 12 damage from a Cacodemon
Phobos Anomaly: 20 damage from a Nightmare Imp, 10 from rocket-jumping, and 28 from a Nightmare Cacodemon
Level 9: 6 damage from a former human
Deimos Lab: 24 damage from a Revenant and 20 damage from a Shambler
Level 11: 19 damage from a Baron of Hell
Abyssal Plains: 12 damage from a Nightmare Imp
Unholy Cathedral: 6 damage from a lost soul

Total:  191 damage

And in case anyone's interested, here is that completed puzzle I mentioned.  :D

[papilio]

You'll get guaranteed DS/BA spawn if you clear Hell's Arena damageless in N!.

No other conditions are required.

[Tormuse]

Wha...?  Is it really that simple?  O_o

(Er...  I mean not that clearing HA on N! damageless is easy, but still...)  :P

I might just have to test that.  :)

[Sereg]

If papilio says it, I believe it.

However, the method of discovering that blows my mind... it requires that someone not only manages to complete HA Damageless on N!, but afterwards manages to go all the way through to at least the UC, and presumably Mortuary/Limbo, and clears *those* for their rewards, all while still on Nightmare(since it has to be the same game). It then further requires that the correlation be observable - that is, they do this Nightmare Conqueror run enough times that they can isolate a damageless HA as the cause of the reward adjustment, not, say, damageless Anomaly + Cyberdemon, or completion of all special levels up to UC, or any number of other imaginable conditions for something that late in the game.

Considering that I've never completed HA, UC, or even the Anomaly on N!, much less damageless, never completed the Mortuary/Limbo on any difficulty, never won a N! game that wasn't an AoOC run, etc., managing to do all of that in a single run, enough times to figure those conditions out, is not something I can really wrap my mind around.

[Q2ZOv]

Papilio probably have discovered conditions himself, but the DoomRL is opensource now so you can find out exact conditions any time if you really want.

[MaiZure]

Wha...?  Is it really that simple?  O_o

(Er...  I mean not that clearing HA on N! damageless is easy, but still...)  :P

I might just have to test that.  :)

Huh, I was under the impression that the guaranteed condition was being a N! Conquerer on a normal, non-Ao* game by the time you hit UC. Again, thats not something I can test haha

[Tormuse]

Huh, I was under the impression that the guaranteed condition was being a N! Conquerer on a normal, non-Ao* game by the time you hit UC. Again, thats not something I can test haha

That's definitely never been the condition.  The other time that I got the guaranteed DS, it was not Conqueror and it was AoMC.  (And hey!  I got Hell Arena Pwnage!  It fits the pattern!)  :D

[papilio]

Papilio probably have discovered conditions himself, but the DoomRL is opensource now so you can find out exact conditions any time if you really want.

Sure, I has been informed from the DoomRL source code which is now open.

Thereby, now it can be considered that the DevTeam opened all secrets to peoples-
so I say here conditions for wielding DS/BA:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To wield the Dragonslayer,
1. You have to be berserked
2. Your equipment slots should be all empty (weapon, armor, boots, subweapon)

To equip the Berserker Armor,
1. Your weapon should be the Dragonslayer
2. Your HP should be above 50%.

Before the source is opened, I thought that I have to build at least brute 2 and your all inventory should be empty;
but that's not true, those two conditions above are enough.

thelaptop edit: Come on, you don't have to be a dick about this.  I'm putting it in spoilers until I get clear indication from KK that this is verboten or allowed.

[Sereg]

Feels weird to have that out in the open, now...

[Q2ZOv]

Thereby, now it can be considered that the DevTeam opened all secrets to peoples-
so I say here conditions for wielding DS/BA:

I personally knew the conditions, but i think you should hide those under spoiler in case someone want to figure it out on their own.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Yeah, just to preserve the tradition I suggest putting the conditions in spoilers when posted :)

[Tormuse]

Feels weird to have that out in the open, now...

It sure does!  :o

Well, since we've got Kornel's blessing to talk about the DS now...  :)

Spoiler: Dragonslayer stuff (click to show/hide)

So, obviously, in this game, I was unable to wield the DS in Unholy Cathedral because I wasn't berserk and had no means of making myself berserk.

Also, a couple of things I've wanted to comment on in other threads for a while:

...after I'd calmed down a bit and pulled myself together, I recorded the rest of the game...

"pulling myself together" was referring to picking up all my stuff I had dropped to make room to unwield and unready all my equipped items to pick up the DS.  It was intended as a subtle clue!  :D

I very nearly screwed up my chance to pick it up due to my own stupidity and had to resort to some cleverness to find another way.  (I really wish I could say what it was, but it would be spoilery and Kornel wouldn't like it)  ;)

I had killed all the enemies near the DS, so I was unable to trigger berserk by hitting enemies, so what I did was I pushed a napalm barrel next to the DS and chainsawed it.  The explosion made me berserk and I was able to pick it up.  :)

[Vid-szhite]

I spoiled it for myself by peeking in the source code anyway. It was shockingly simple!

[Evilpotatoe]

@MaiZure

thats not something I can test haha

Sure you can !  Its more or less what tourist-mode was made for !  Give it a glance, its quite fun.
You can even get my modified version (with super zerk, super headlight...)
That mod is a great tutorial to get some moding bases.

Personally, I found that guaranteed DS mistakenly... and then, did some research to find the condition.  It remains a pain to achieve that in real game... even after getting pwnage medal, I failed most my attemps, by mistake or bad luck, which gives me an Apostle count of only 2 (+1 Gutt's heart)
I linked Mortems, if someone is interrested
Edit : Oh, I can haz attachments ?  Great !


Since I was quite sure the "mystery" around DS would quickly officially vanish with the source release, I have one question which remains :
How the duck are you supposed to kill Spidey when going for that guaranteed DS ?  I don't recall of any guaranteed nuke in 0.9.9.7, and the BFG can't be used with DS in your hands.
Yet, from 2dev's posts... I was quite sure something makes it possible with guaranteed success. (Wouldn't dare to say "no luck involved", yet, since level generation remains :)

@Tormuse : Funny run, but... come on, You can do it without AoMC !  If I managed to clean HA with just SOB/Int2 and SOB3, you can do it too !
Then, just skip MCE and you'll even get zerk for UC.  A cake... no lies !

[Tormuse]

Since I was quite sure the "mystery" around DS would quickly officially vanish with the source release, I have one question which remains :
How the duck are you supposed to kill Spidey when going for that guaranteed DS ?  I don't recall of any guaranteed nuke in 0.9.9.7, and the BFG can't be used with DS in your hands.
Yet, from 2dev's posts... I was quite sure something makes it possible with guaranteed success. (Wouldn't dare to say "no luck involved", yet, since level generation remains :)

Yeah, this question was raised a while ago and never answered.  I'm still curious about that myself.  Does someone who has gone through the source code know how to get a guaranteed nuke besides the (unusable in this case) Nuclear BFG?

@Tormuse : Funny run, but... come on, You can do it without AoMC !  If I managed to clean HA with just SOB/Int2 and SOB3, you can do it too !
Then, just skip MCE and you'll even get zerk for UC.  A cake... no lies !

Uh huh...  I'm sure I *can* do it, but I wouldn't say it's easy.  Believe it or not, I really am not that good at avoiding damage.  You see that mortem up there where I took 191 damage?  Yeah, that was supposed to be under 50; it was my best attempt and I wasn't even close.  :P  (And if you want more examples, I've got a whole Youtube channel full of them; I take lots of damage all the time!)  :D

Nice Portal reference, though.  ;)

[Evilpotatoe]

Nice Portal reference, though.  ;)

The misleading information was of course part of the reference.  My counter would be wayyyyyy higher, otherwise :)

But while it remains pretty hard, I find this difficulty interesting.  Kinda looks like "the game's highest challenge" to me, which is very subjective, with the ton of badges asking for ridiculous demonstrations of skill.

Yet, since we both seem to suck at avoiding damages, I have to remind you that removing max carnage gives you the possibility to dodge, which leaves you with way more strategies than "just cornershooting".  Thats one of the reasons why I never play this "challenge".  It does not only makes the game overall easier, but also puts you on rails, removing too much of the gameplay for me.  In fact, it may be like INT2 : at some stage, I've taken the habit to pick it everytime, but once the monsters behaviour was mastered, it was more productive to skip it, like I quickly skipped MCE.

Bah, I digress, I digress.  You know that already anyway, so why would I even try to argue ?
I'd better ask you what you think of replacing a few late levels (at least, those stupid SOB) with TaN or REL.  I doubt BER would be worth it, but TaN looks like a good late pick to me.  Is SOB picked for any precise reason here ?

[Tormuse]

Bah, I digress, I digress.  You know that already anyway, so why would I even try to argue ?
I'd better ask you what you think of replacing a few late levels (at least, those stupid SOB) with TaN or REL.  I doubt BER would be worth it, but TaN looks like a good late pick to me.  Is SOB picked for any precise reason here ?

I agree with you, but Cateye blocks Reloader, Brute, and Tough as Nails, so those weren't options for me.  Honestly, I had run out of things to upgrade by the end of this game; my only options were Eagle Eye, (useless in AoMC) Triggerhappy, (just makes me waste more ammo for enemies that are already dying quickly) Son of a Bitch, and Ironman.  I didn't want to get SoB because I was already doing plenty of damage and I didn't want to risk doing so much that I start knocking enemies back, because then I wouldn't be able to hit them with the full volley of my rapid weapons.  Even Hellrunner wasn't something I cared about at that point, because I had the Anti-gravity boots, so I was going plenty fast.

[Evilpotatoe]

Ah, forgot it blocks reloader too.  But is it really worth it ?  You were probably OP enough long before MCE, and I doubt it was really useful at that point.
Personally, I nearly always play masterless now, to avoid blocks, but... I guess it doesn't matter too much at that level, indeed.

And MCE remains a cool pick.

[Tormuse]

*Shrug*  I really could have gone either way.  I agree with your sentiment about masterless games; I think they are frequently underrated.  Still, sometimes it's fun to take a master trait just for something different and fun.  :)