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[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Yeah, just to preserve the tradition I suggest putting the conditions in spoilers when posted :)

[Tormuse]

Feels weird to have that out in the open, now...

It sure does!  :o

Well, since we've got Kornel's blessing to talk about the DS now...  :)

Spoiler: Dragonslayer stuff (click to show/hide)

So, obviously, in this game, I was unable to wield the DS in Unholy Cathedral because I wasn't berserk and had no means of making myself berserk.

Also, a couple of things I've wanted to comment on in other threads for a while:

...after I'd calmed down a bit and pulled myself together, I recorded the rest of the game...

"pulling myself together" was referring to picking up all my stuff I had dropped to make room to unwield and unready all my equipped items to pick up the DS.  It was intended as a subtle clue!  :D

I very nearly screwed up my chance to pick it up due to my own stupidity and had to resort to some cleverness to find another way.  (I really wish I could say what it was, but it would be spoilery and Kornel wouldn't like it)  ;)

I had killed all the enemies near the DS, so I was unable to trigger berserk by hitting enemies, so what I did was I pushed a napalm barrel next to the DS and chainsawed it.  The explosion made me berserk and I was able to pick it up.  :)

[Vid-szhite]

I spoiled it for myself by peeking in the source code anyway. It was shockingly simple!

[Evilpotatoe]

@MaiZure

thats not something I can test haha

Sure you can !  Its more or less what tourist-mode was made for !  Give it a glance, its quite fun.
You can even get my modified version (with super zerk, super headlight...)
That mod is a great tutorial to get some moding bases.

Personally, I found that guaranteed DS mistakenly... and then, did some research to find the condition.  It remains a pain to achieve that in real game... even after getting pwnage medal, I failed most my attemps, by mistake or bad luck, which gives me an Apostle count of only 2 (+1 Gutt's heart)
I linked Mortems, if someone is interrested
Edit : Oh, I can haz attachments ?  Great !


Since I was quite sure the "mystery" around DS would quickly officially vanish with the source release, I have one question which remains :
How the duck are you supposed to kill Spidey when going for that guaranteed DS ?  I don't recall of any guaranteed nuke in 0.9.9.7, and the BFG can't be used with DS in your hands.
Yet, from 2dev's posts... I was quite sure something makes it possible with guaranteed success. (Wouldn't dare to say "no luck involved", yet, since level generation remains :)

@Tormuse : Funny run, but... come on, You can do it without AoMC !  If I managed to clean HA with just SOB/Int2 and SOB3, you can do it too !
Then, just skip MCE and you'll even get zerk for UC.  A cake... no lies !

[Tormuse]

Since I was quite sure the "mystery" around DS would quickly officially vanish with the source release, I have one question which remains :
How the duck are you supposed to kill Spidey when going for that guaranteed DS ?  I don't recall of any guaranteed nuke in 0.9.9.7, and the BFG can't be used with DS in your hands.
Yet, from 2dev's posts... I was quite sure something makes it possible with guaranteed success. (Wouldn't dare to say "no luck involved", yet, since level generation remains :)

Yeah, this question was raised a while ago and never answered.  I'm still curious about that myself.  Does someone who has gone through the source code know how to get a guaranteed nuke besides the (unusable in this case) Nuclear BFG?

@Tormuse : Funny run, but... come on, You can do it without AoMC !  If I managed to clean HA with just SOB/Int2 and SOB3, you can do it too !
Then, just skip MCE and you'll even get zerk for UC.  A cake... no lies !

Uh huh...  I'm sure I *can* do it, but I wouldn't say it's easy.  Believe it or not, I really am not that good at avoiding damage.  You see that mortem up there where I took 191 damage?  Yeah, that was supposed to be under 50; it was my best attempt and I wasn't even close.  :P  (And if you want more examples, I've got a whole Youtube channel full of them; I take lots of damage all the time!)  :D

Nice Portal reference, though.  ;)

[Evilpotatoe]

Nice Portal reference, though.  ;)

The misleading information was of course part of the reference.  My counter would be wayyyyyy higher, otherwise :)

But while it remains pretty hard, I find this difficulty interesting.  Kinda looks like "the game's highest challenge" to me, which is very subjective, with the ton of badges asking for ridiculous demonstrations of skill.

Yet, since we both seem to suck at avoiding damages, I have to remind you that removing max carnage gives you the possibility to dodge, which leaves you with way more strategies than "just cornershooting".  Thats one of the reasons why I never play this "challenge".  It does not only makes the game overall easier, but also puts you on rails, removing too much of the gameplay for me.  In fact, it may be like INT2 : at some stage, I've taken the habit to pick it everytime, but once the monsters behaviour was mastered, it was more productive to skip it, like I quickly skipped MCE.

Bah, I digress, I digress.  You know that already anyway, so why would I even try to argue ?
I'd better ask you what you think of replacing a few late levels (at least, those stupid SOB) with TaN or REL.  I doubt BER would be worth it, but TaN looks like a good late pick to me.  Is SOB picked for any precise reason here ?

[Tormuse]

Bah, I digress, I digress.  You know that already anyway, so why would I even try to argue ?
I'd better ask you what you think of replacing a few late levels (at least, those stupid SOB) with TaN or REL.  I doubt BER would be worth it, but TaN looks like a good late pick to me.  Is SOB picked for any precise reason here ?

I agree with you, but Cateye blocks Reloader, Brute, and Tough as Nails, so those weren't options for me.  Honestly, I had run out of things to upgrade by the end of this game; my only options were Eagle Eye, (useless in AoMC) Triggerhappy, (just makes me waste more ammo for enemies that are already dying quickly) Son of a Bitch, and Ironman.  I didn't want to get SoB because I was already doing plenty of damage and I didn't want to risk doing so much that I start knocking enemies back, because then I wouldn't be able to hit them with the full volley of my rapid weapons.  Even Hellrunner wasn't something I cared about at that point, because I had the Anti-gravity boots, so I was going plenty fast.

[Evilpotatoe]

Ah, forgot it blocks reloader too.  But is it really worth it ?  You were probably OP enough long before MCE, and I doubt it was really useful at that point.
Personally, I nearly always play masterless now, to avoid blocks, but... I guess it doesn't matter too much at that level, indeed.

And MCE remains a cool pick.

[Tormuse]

*Shrug*  I really could have gone either way.  I agree with your sentiment about masterless games; I think they are frequently underrated.  Still, sometimes it's fun to take a master trait just for something different and fun.  :)