DoomRL > Discussion

What to do with early bulk packs on shotgun build?

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Faintly:
Later on on I'm very happy to throw them on a BFG to save inventory space. Or if I get a nano mod I'm assuming that nanomanufacture is great.

if I get them early I can't think of uses, and I'm not too sure about the ones I have.

uses:

1. fireproof armor or onyx shield. How useful is it if I get cerberus? I suppose a spare high quality armor is good so maybe pretty good.

2. I could throw one on the chainsaw? It's not necessarry for the cathedral, which is why I'm carrying it, but maybe I could throw an agility mod on it as well to use it without brute, or just let the bulk mods tell me to get melee skills instead.

Beyond those two, i'm not sure if any of the rest are useful when you haven't invested in accuracy:



Burst cannon looks cool but low accuracy. Maybe with a sniper or agility mod?

Environmental boots look good on paper but seem like a waste to assemble from steel rather than plasteel, and the only reason I would want them anyway is lava pits, which is way later, and carrying an extra envirosuit around might anyway be just as good anyway as carrying plasteel boots and spending 3 mods on it.

tactical rocket launcher seems like its for when you're not getting the missile launcher, which I always aim to.

Storm bolter pistol looks cool but I have no accuracy and i usually find an artifact pistol anyway.



So should I just lug them around until nano or bfg and use one on red armor and maybe one on chainsaw?

ZicherCZ:
First, welcome to the forums!

Now, you confused me a bit, mentioning a shotgun build in the post title and then listing a lot of weapon assemblies that are not shotgun (IIRC, shotgun do not benefit from bulk mods directly, assemblies or otherwise - they do decrease reloading times for them, but taking Reloader trait is always a better choice, and Shottyman makes this use completely obsolete). Nanomanufacture assembly, for instance, does not work for shotguns.

Bulk has other uses though. First and foremost, it alone doubles your armor durability. Then, you can later turn the armor into a fireproof one - this is quite a cheap (non-Whizkid) way to gain lots of fire resistance, especially when made of red armor. And you can use it for a plenty of secondary weapons you already listed (BFG or chainsaw - most of the other assemblies are way better used by appropriate builds, instead of shotgun builds).

And if you're not happy with these uses, you can simply leave the bulks on the floor.

Faintly:

--- Quote from: ZicherCZ on May 17, 2017, 11:39 ---First, welcome to the forums!

Now, you confused me a bit, mentioning a shotgun build in the post title and then listing a lot of weapon assemblies that are not shotgun (IIRC, shotgun do not benefit from bulk mods directly, assemblies or otherwise - they do decrease reloading times for them, but taking Reloader trait is always a better choice, and Shottyman makes this use completely obsolete)



--- End quote ---

thanks, hi

Well that's exactly my problem, if I go shottyman etc, my primary weapon can't be a dump for bulk mods, like (-I'm guessing-) it can with other primaries, so in consequence I have trouble finding uses for them when a lot of them drop. Nanomanufacture isn't a shotgun mod but it seems like a strong use for bulk mods on a shotgun build, where you can't use them for a shotgun assembly. (Infinite rockets!)

Or wait did "shotgun build" mean 'angel of shotgunnery' build? I just meant getting shotgun traits and focusing on it in a normal game.


about armor, it seems good with red armor for eventual fireproof, but otherwise I'm not running out of armors to wear, and the speed penalty hurts a lot before I get hellrunner or speed boots. Maybe armor health will be more tight on higher difficulty settings. The red armor mod does seem solid.

About the chainsaw, is it worthwhile when you don't get brute? Seems like I take a lot of hp damage when I use it to save ammo. I've been carrying it only to make outspeeding the cathedral angel easier. Also I'm glad to hear the BFG is a good use, though unsurprised. The weapon capacity to inventory slot ratio is really high.


--- Quote from: ZicherCZ on May 17, 2017, 11:39 ---And if you're not happy with these uses, you can simply leave the bulks on the floor.

--- End quote ---

I wouldn't be asking if I knew how happy I should be w/ them!

It never occured to me that the best use for a mod might be to forego a permanentish power up. That's, like, blasphemy. Well maybe a less RPG mindset is in order, the inventory in this game is the tightest I've ever seen. (Or it seems that way anyway. Maybe it's inexperience seeing as there's a challenge to beat the game with even much less lots.)

Thomas:

--- Quote from: Faintly on May 17, 2017, 18:21 ---About the chainsaw, is it worthwhile when you don't get brute? Seems like I take a lot of hp damage when I use it to save ammo. I've been carrying it only to make outspeeding the cathedral angel easier. Also I'm glad to hear the BFG is a good use, though unsurprised. The weapon capacity to inventory slot ratio is really high.

--- End quote ---
When you're fighting a single arachnotron, if you don't have good cover to hide behind then the best strategy is to dodge towards them and kill them in melee range because their melee attack does much less damage than their gun. Using a shotgun will knock them back (and then they'll shoot you), so a chainsaw is really good in this kind of situation.

That's the only situation where I would be very happy to have brought a chainsaw with me without brute, so it doesn't come up very often. If you want to use it to save ammo then you should take brute+berserker or at least juggler, or the cost of using it will always be greater than just shooting them.



--- Quote ---It never occured to me that the best use for a mod might be to forego a permanentish power up. That's, like, blasphemy. Well maybe a less RPG mindset is in order, the inventory in this game is the tightest I've ever seen. (Or it seems that way anyway. Maybe it's inexperience seeing as there's a challenge to beat the game with even much less lots.)

--- End quote ---

Your inventory will mainly depend on how many special levels you want to clear. Clearing special levels generally fills your inventory full of useful junk that you have to carry around for a long time (take the staff to the vaults, take the chainsaw to the cathedral, take some envirosuits to the lava pits)

So any character that wants to do a lot of special levels (or all of them) is pressured in to getting brute and berserker, so that when they run out of ammo halfway through the game they can win the rest of it with the chainsaw/spear that they're built to use.

But if you don't plan on doing a lot of them and you don't want to get brute, then just bring more ammo. You already know it costs a lot of HP to save ammo, and when you think about it like that, 50 shotgun shells will "heal" you more than a small medpack or even a large one. Obviously you need SOME medpacks to live but if you ever run out of ammo, even if it doesn't kill you, then you know that next game you should drop more medpacks or spare weapons for ammo so that it doesn't happen again.

Evilpotatoe:
I'd go for the TacRL.
I often try to get one for the Armory, since it makes shambler's head easier (and getting it tends to give you a nano, which is neat).

It can never be guaranteed, but I don't see much use for those (great) B-mods anyway. My next ones usually go on a plasma gun (which I try to make nanomachic), then on BFGs (which barely ever use, but big BFGs are cool, and makes me comfortable)
You might also consider the gatling gun, which is great.  I stopped crafting it since I reserve my B for tacRL & my plasma gun, but it rocks.
The only sad thing is that it's a sort of plasma gun... with bullet type damages.  Which is a bit weak.  On the other hand, it's usually easier to find a bunch of bullets.
The other assemblies seem pointless to me, since a normal weapon with 5 mods will often be just better than a dubious assembly.

I don't remember well.  Was the movement penalty for bluk-modding armors removed in 0.9.9.7 ?  If it wasn't, I wouldn't advise to do it.
Fireproof can probably be a good armor, but I forgot about it due to its lack of versality, since some (maybe too good) stuff exist, and don't have such drawbacks.

Putting B on chainsaw is cool, but I doubt it's as useful as it should be, since BRU/BER give you insane damage boosts already anyway, and the AoD basically requires either great speed, or crude melee power, which kinda both make the damage difference unnecessary.

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