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Author Topic: The Journey to 100%  (Read 41324 times)

MaiZure

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #105 on: October 17, 2017, 20:28 »

Still, you provided interesting information about DS's berserk counter;  I seem to remember, a while back, when ArchAo666 was invented, someone wondering if it was possible to run the DS's berserk timer out through regular gameplay of that challenge.  For the record, I'm gonna say no to that, because in my current ArchAo666 game that I'm playing, I'm less than 50 levels from the end and my turn counter is just over 400000, so not even 1 million, let alone 10 million.  :)

Hold down the wait button (.) for exactly one minute and see how much time passes. Then extrapolate how long you'd have to weigh down your keyboard with a battery or something like that. I'm actually curious. My guess is that the game samples the input at some fixed rate (24,30,60) times per second.
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BBHood217

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #106 on: October 17, 2017, 20:40 »

Maybe we can finally see the Apostle's real colors without the red filter.
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Tavana

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2017, 22:12 »

Oh, one more thing I found while Code Diving (TM): It appears that there's a medal missing from the wiki, so if you're looking for 100% completion you'll have a hard time getting it. It's incredibly hard to get unintentionally, so I'll just tell you the name of it and put the conditions to earn it in a spoiler. If you read the name it should be fairly obvious how to get it, though. Happy hunting!

Medal: Gutts' Sorrow
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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ZicherCZ

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2017, 22:57 »

Hold down the wait button (.) for exactly one minute and see how much time passes. Then extrapolate how long you'd have to weigh down your keyboard with a battery or something like that. I'm actually curious.

Why so complicated? Set your RunWait command duration to 10M turns. Get the Dragonslayer. Clear a level, so nothing can disturb you. Use the RunWait command. Grab a coffee or two before the game processes 10M turns.

My guess is that the game samples the input at some fixed rate (24,30,60) times per second.

IMHO, I don't think so. From my experience, the game does not redraw the screen during long RunWaits, until there is actually something to redraw (e.g. a monster enters your line of sight). This makes long runwaiting quite tedious if you grabbed a Tracking map earlier, and the game animates all the monster movements.

EDIT: So I decided to actually test this. I set up the MaxWait parameter to 10 000 000, cleared Phobos base and level 2, and positioned myself to see water (fluids are animated while you're just idling around, but the animation freezes during runwaiting - with that I had an easy visual check that the game was still processing). Then I pressed the RunWait command.

After exactly 10 minutes, the water animation was still frozen, so the game was still processing. I interrupted the runwait and checked the "@" screen. The result is attached - 21 418 426 "turns" have passed. Now, the "turns" in the "@" screen mean 0.1s of ingame-time ticks, a wait command always takes 1.0s of ingame time (= 10 "turns"), and when I started, I was at 3086 "turns".

So in 10 minutes, slightly over 2M of "wait" actions were processed, and 10M turns would pass in ~47 minutes.

My computer is a five years old laptop - more up-to-date machines could probably handle the processing quite a bit faster.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 23:35 by ZicherCZ »
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Tormuse

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #109 on: October 18, 2017, 03:42 »

Medal: Gutts' Sorrow
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is that really in there?  I just searched the forums and the only reference to it is when TheLaptop said that it was going into the next version!  :o

Why so complicated? Set your RunWait command duration to 10M turns. Get the Dragonslayer. Clear a level, so nothing can disturb you. Use the RunWait command. Grab a coffee or two before the game processes 10M turns.

That's a good idea!  I might just do that on the second last level of my current game!  :D

Maybe we can finally see the Apostle's real colors without the red filter.

I'll post a screenshot.  ;)

EDIT:

EDIT: So I decided to actually test this. I set up the MaxWait parameter to 10 000 000, cleared Phobos base and level 2, and positioned myself to see water (fluids are animated while you're just idling around, but the animation freezes during runwaiting - with that I had an easy visual check that the game was still processing). Then I pressed the RunWait command.

After exactly 10 minutes, the water animation was still frozen, so the game was still processing. I interrupted the runwait and checked the "@" screen. The result is attached - 21 418 426 "turns" have passed. Now, the "turns" in the "@" screen mean 0.1s of ingame-time ticks, a wait command always takes 1.0s of ingame time (= 10 "turns"), and when I started, I was at 3086 "turns".

So in 10 minutes, slightly over 2M of "wait" actions were processed, and 10M turns would pass in ~47 minutes.

My computer is a five years old laptop - more up-to-date machines could probably handle the processing quite a bit faster.

I did the same, only I timed it for exactly one minute and got a result of about 3.2 million turns (or 320000 in-game seconds)  I guess my new computer is slightly faster than yours.  :)  I should be able to run DS out in about half an hour, I think.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 04:11 by Tormuse »
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thelaptop

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #110 on: October 18, 2017, 07:15 »

Medal: Gutts' Sorrow
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What?  That got left in when KK released the source?  Holy crap... he said he didn't like the negative medals...  =.=

Must've been too funny to resist.
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BBHood217

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2017, 09:19 »

Icy does have one mortem that met the medal condition, yet no such medal was awarded.  Guess it was dummied out.
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ZicherCZ

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #112 on: October 18, 2017, 12:10 »

What?  That got left in when KK released the source?  Holy crap... he said he didn't like the negative medals...  =.=

Must've been too funny to resist.
Well, since DRL 0997.1 Sneak Repo was already out for some time ...

For the record, Gutts' Sorrow is not the only "new" medal left in the source. I also noticed a "Klear Cross" - those who remember Klear as a forum member might guess what the medal is awarded for, and others can, well, guess too (or code-dive for it).

EDIT: Another such medal noticed - the Purple Heart. A hint here - Tormuse recently stated that he learned something the very very hard way. He would receive the medal in that game (although the requirements are not quite as strict).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 13:22 by ZicherCZ »
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Icy

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2017, 15:04 »

Interesting discussion! The extra medals must be dummied out as BBHood said, I would have achieved "Gutts' Sorrow".

Day 41:

After previous struggles, I tried some more for Chessmaster's Cross and got it pretty quickly. Getting better! I was more patient with each wave to wipe out as many Cacodemon corpses as possible before summoning more enemies.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next, I decided I was going to get my 5th diamond badge to reach the next ranking. I figured that Gatekeeper Diamond Badge would be pretty easy, but wasn't 100% sure about the wording around "clear". I was planning on using a Phase Device in Phobos Anomaly as anyone would, but wanted to know if I would need to kill all the rest of the enemies, so I watched Sereg's video of him earning the achievement.

The first thing that caught my eye was his method of doing Phobos 1, in that, he would stand at a corner and force a monster to instantly appear. It dawned on me that I was unaware of the Run->Wait trick. Usually when I would wait for enemies to approach, I would just mash Wait, or if I was feeling bold and careless, hold it. I never knew you could do Run->Wait! So +1 for watching the run. I also watched Phobos Anomaly of course and was curious about his off-corner position, but it makes sense with Run->Wait since the trick ignores Intuition, the one downside. This will help my gameplay out a bit more, rather than recklessly approaching enemies, though I suppose having done that all this time, my combat positioning is probably a lot better than it could be.

So I started my run. On Phobos 2, I got insane luck:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First time ever seeing one so early! Then on the floor before Phobos Anomaly:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On that note, I was wondering exactly how the damage from a massacre lever works? It gibs weak enemies, but doesn't kill Lost Souls or Demons, so I'm guessing it does 15-20 fire damage?

Anyway, I wasn't 100% sure if nuking Phobos Anomaly would count for the badge, but I had no Phase Device and figured it would be a good learning experience. Except...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

:(

On the next run, it went a lot more regularly, and I got a lucky Phase Device positioning; almost the exact same as Sereg had! ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

From there, I tried out my first major usage of Run->Wait, which helped a lot. Unfortunately, it was still defaulted to 20, which I've since raised to 10000, so it still took awhile. After clearing Phobos Anomaly, I stairdived to Babel and very carefully took out the Cyberdemon with Dodgemaster abuse.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Another diamond badge down and another rank up! I'm excited to get closer to that "Chaos" prefix for my ranking to flaunt!
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Tormuse

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2017, 16:11 »

...I never knew you could do Run->Wait!...

Oh!  I didn't realize you didn't know that!  :o  It's super useful, especially if you combine it with dropping med packs in doorways to attract Formers who like to pick them up.  (Commonly called "gift-dropping")  And yes, you'll want to adjust the "MaxWait" and probably also "RunDelay" as well.  The game normally puts a delay between each wait action.  I personally have RunDelay set to 1 just in case I decide I want to interrupt the waiting for some reason, but some more bolder players set it to zero, so all the waiting occurs instantly.

On that note, I was wondering exactly how the damage from a massacre lever works? It gibs weak enemies, but doesn't kill Lost Souls or Demons, so I'm guessing it does 15-20 fire damage?

I've wondered about that myself.  I think you're right that it's fire damage;  Lost Souls are resistant to bullets and fire, so it would have to be one of those two, but fire is much more likely to gib things; if it was doing enough bullet damage to gib Formers, the Lost Souls would not survive.

Anyway, I wasn't 100% sure if nuking Phobos Anomaly would count for the badge, but I had no Phase Device and figured it would be a good learning experience. Except...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

:(

Oh...  ouch...  that's unfortunate.  :|  That's a really harsh lesson in how invulnerability works...  Invulnerability duration (and all other powerups too) is based on the number of actions you take, not time, so if you move quickly, (or otherwise do actions that take little time) you use up the invulnerability faster.  I notice that in the screenshot, you were running; that was a mistake.  Even the mere act of switching to running is considered an action that takes a tenth of a second; if you hadn't been running, you would've been fine.

Then again, having an invulnerability wear off just before a nuke goes is kind of a rite of passage for DRL players; I'm pretty sure everyone who has ever played the game has done that at least once.  :)  EDIT:  I mentioned it in a post once!  :D
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 16:18 by Tormuse »
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Sereg

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #115 on: October 18, 2017, 18:09 »

That thing with the invulnerability running out right before the nuke goes off? I've done that.  I've also managed to run wait through a nuke countdown.

Glad you found my video helpful... even moreso that you managed to learn something new from it.

Congratulations on General rank... looks like you're still going strong,  so I'll continue looking forward to your next achievement.
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ZicherCZ

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2017, 00:14 »

... and probably also "RunDelay" as well.  The game normally puts a delay between each wait action.  I personally have RunDelay set to 1 just in case I decide I want to interrupt the waiting for some reason, but some more bolder players set it to zero, so all the waiting occurs instantly.

RunDelay affects the delay between turns only if you are actually running - RunWait is unaffected and always occurs instantly. The test of RunWait performed by both Tormuse and me confirms this (with Tormuse's setting of RunDelay = 1 the game would only be able to process 60k wait actions per minute, and with my setting of RunDelay = 20 turns only 3k actions per minute).

What also needs to be mentioned - the Wait command always takes 1.0s, ignoring any player speed modifiers. Thus, a fast enough monster can enter your line of sight and get a shot at you before the player's Wait action actually ends. Keep that in mind and try to pick a safe location for runwaiting.

EDIT: Two more real-color-Apostle considerations - if you actually go for it, don't put Berserker armor on before you actually run DS out. BA causes nightmare demons to be spawned constantly, which would break any chance of running DS out in any reasonable timeframe.
Also note that the Apostle has longer line of sight, great speed and a good chance to attack, so it may attack you well before you actually see it. And if it does, the attack is strong enough to always proc Berserker trait.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 00:24 by ZicherCZ »
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LuckyDee

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2017, 00:58 »

I also noticed a "Klear Cross" - those who remember Klear as a forum member might guess what the medal is awarded for, and others can, well, guess too (or code-dive for it).

Hehehe... this will most likely have something to do with
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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ZicherCZ

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #118 on: October 19, 2017, 01:25 »

Hehehe... this will most likely have something to do with
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Correct :).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Tormuse

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Re: The Journey to 100%
« Reply #119 on: October 19, 2017, 02:05 »

Psst...  The Apostle is yellow!  :D

RunDelay affects the delay between turns only if you are actually running - RunWait is unaffected and always occurs instantly.

Incorrect.  I just tested it by setting the rundelay to 100.  It slowed down run-waiting and run-moving.

Also note that the Apostle has longer line of sight...

Ah, that explains how he was able to shock me so frequently!

...And if it does, the attack is strong enough to always proc Berserker trait.

Unless I don't have Berserker trait!  :)  (Malicious Blades FTW!)  :D
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