Jupiter Hell > General Discussion

Damage calculation - complexity vs ease of understanding

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Kornel Kisielewicz:
I almost just went for it, but then I realized that a beginner player faced with a shotgun that does 6 slash damage vs a pistol with 10 pierce damage will always assume that the pistol is a better weapon. However a solution is to have "flesh" as a baseline - most of the enemies that the player will meet in the beginning are flesh based, so if we balance the numbers around 1.0 for flesh, we still can have HP with modifiers but the numbers will stay comparable for damage against most early game enemies.

gvekony:

--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on June 06, 2018, 07:05 ---I have a plan for a fairly complex damage calculation system, but I'm afraid it will not be very easily understandable to the casual players. We already decided that weapons in JH will have constant damage (for simplicity and tactics vs randomness sake), however we also want different weapons to interact differently with different enemies (resistances/armor).
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Maybe there should be a mode, with some randomness involved. Just for the rougelike feeling. ;)


--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on June 06, 2018, 07:05 ---However, I have problems with - is it easily understandable? Is there a way to easily communicate the system to the player?
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Actually Diablo I. comes to my mind. Remember the famous "Cut the flesh and crush the bone" quote? It summarizes it quite elegantly.
And yes, I agree on renaming the slash to shred.


--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on June 06, 2018, 07:05 ---This is not something that could land in a tutorial (it's too deep mechanics) and without tooltips it would be hard to convey this to the player - any idea how to list that information on the player screens?

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You could implement it to a page @ F1. Similarly to the character screen there could be a left-right switch. Or even if you'd like to have more immersion, create an infoterminal with fix spawn at level 1.
I think a simple table like this sums up the relations:

Damage resistances
SlashPierceFirePlasma-ChaosBallistic Armor 200%50%50%25%Human Body50%200%50%50%Mecha Body200%100%100%50%Undead400%400%25%25%
Apply the reciprocal to the damage value and you are done. Maybe with an example calculation included.
Or it might be a better idea to create a table with the reciprocal values named Damage modifiers vs. [...] I think most ppl will get the idea.

Damage modifiers vs.
SlashPierceFirePlasma-ChaosBallistic Armor 1/2224Human Body21/222Mecha Body1/21/212Undead1/41/444


--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on June 06, 2018, 07:05 ---Finally, it might be confusing for casual RPG players, that by default from the get go you have different resistances for piercing/slash as the player.

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We are talking about some level of powerplay here. I'd expect the player to invest about 10 minutes to read up or check the damage - armor relations... it is not WoW or anything serious theorycrafting, but a simple spreadsheet calculation.

gvekony:
As an example:

From Warcraft III. Easy to understand, tested by time.

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