General > Off Topic
Working on a roguelike...
Tormuse:
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 08:30 ---You're quite a lucky guy to have found two in one session!
--- End quote ---
Or unlucky. :P
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 08:30 ---Did they appear on the ground at any point prior to vanishing? Did they drop to the same tile as an existing item?
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure for either question; I was more focused on my inventory free space at the time.
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 08:30 ---Ever play the old Gamecube game Eternal Darkness? That's the effect I'm going for with this system.
--- End quote ---
I haven't played that game, but I have played Consuming Shadow, (made by Yahtzee, of Zero Punctuation fame) and that has fancy insanity effects. Same with Trilby's Notes, also by Yahtzee.
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 08:30 ---Removing an item that won't fit in your inventory will indeed drop it on the ground, and it should also send you a message telling you that.
--- End quote ---
As I recall, it did display a message saying the cuirass was dropped. It just wasn't there.
In other news, I took a quick look at the latest version. The display/interface looks *very* different from previous versions! I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I'll give it a try and let you know what I think.
EDIT: Okay! I just finished playing a version 0.7.1 game and I won! :D
Spoiler: Here's the autopsy. (click to show/hide)Autopsy: 2019.02.07.16.50.23
Cleared the game on level 14
Total XP: 29403
Equipped Items:
an ancient falchion (+2, 4d6+4) [Moderately Damaged]
<no item equipped>
an oil lamp <sacred oil:83%>
a Lemurian noble cuirass [Severely Damaged]
an amulet of protection
Carried Items:
<45> a steel cinquedea (+2, 2d4+1) [Slightly Damaged]
<85> a leather vest [Undamaged]
<2> an ancestral pendant
<3> an amulet of precision
<75> 15x flask [sacred oil] (100%)
<5> 1x flask [fire water] (100%)
<4> 1x vial [medicine] (100%)
<128> 16x clay jar [healing ointment] (95%)
<12> 3x ancient vial [clear elixir] (100%)
Kills:
76x giant red rat
16x cave worm
12x grave worm
29x tomb serpent
13x swarm of tiny scarabs
4x albino tiger
16x mummified swordsman
2x mummified noble
2x spectral remnant
2x viridian aura
1x lemurian necrocrat
[checksum: 6213fbd5]
At one point, I got hit by a virdian aura and didn't die, (it brought me down to "heavily wounded") so it either has a somewhat wide range of damage or the amulet of protection, which protects from physical attacks, saved me.
I have some more notes, of course. I'll start with comments about the differences between this version and the previous one. The different display without the inventory and equipment visible threw me at first, but I got used to it. That being said, you might want to re-think what information you display on the left side. If you want to cut down on how busy the screen is, that's fine, but the information that you leave there should be stuff that the player needs the most often. Having the time, health, and sanity levels is fine, but I wouldn't expect the player to need to know all their individual resistances except when they put on something new. Same with evasion and accuracy ratings. I would put all of those on a separate screen, because they're stats that you would only want to look at once in a long while. However, the state of your weapon, armour, and how full your lamp are would be much more useful to have there. You're gonna want to know if your equipment is about to break or if you're about to be plunged into darkness. (Though I admit I've never used any item to the point that it broke; that's probably something I should test)
I also encountered a number of bugs. I'll start with the bugs that were absent from previous versions but started appearing in this version...
"The giant red rathits you." There's no space between the creature's name and what follows. This happens every time any enemy hits me.
Okay, using "targeting" mode works for viewing terrain features now, but now, it doesn't identify items as I walk over them. I have to use targeting mode constantly for items on the ground, which is a bit of a nuisance.
The game no longer displays the last few messages at a time as it does in the previous version; it only shows the last message, and as a result, it seems that I sometimes miss important messages, such as if an enemy gets multiple swings at me, it only shows the last swing, so I only see "it misses me," but I still take damage.
It no longer displays how injured the enemy is after I hit them. It doesn't show it when I use targeting mode either.
On the plus side, fire water seems to not give me infinite oil any more. :P (I never found a use for that stuff, by the way)
Is there a way to have the field of view pan around without actually walking to that place? It would be nice to be able to survey the level to look for unexplored areas, so I know where to go.
Sometimes, I have to unlock doors twice. Like it says "The lock falls open with a click," and then I "apply" it again and it displays "The lock falls open with a click," a second time and then I have to apply it a third time for it to actually open the door.
There appears to be no message for the lamp going out if it happens while you're walking, rather than while you're in the middle of an activity like unlocking a door.
The amount of oil in the lamp continues going down, even if you turn the lamp off. (And here, I thought I was being clever, turning it off while unlocking doors to save oil) :P
I notice that the message display cuts words in the middle if they go off the end of the line, such as with the message, "Your lamp does not seem to be compatible with this fluid." (I took a screenshot if you want to see what I mean)
I witnessed the disappearing dropped items phenomenon again. This time, I dropped my leather vest to make room in my inventory so I could look at a pile of items to find out what was in there. I dropped the vest in a free square and it appeared on the ground, but at some point while I was rummaging through the pile of items, it vanished and was nowhere to be found. Interestingly, when I tried to use targeting mode on the square where the vest was, it generated an error message. It generated a new error message each time I tried to look at the square. I'll attach them to this post in a zip file.
It happened again; a noble cuirass vanished after being dropped on the ground and it generated an error when I tried to look at the spot it previously was. I actually saw it disappear this time.
Oh, hey! My leather vest came back! :o I don't know what caused it, but it re-appeared in the same spot I had previously left it.
It happened again with a falchion. I don't know what the pattern is. I guess I have to accept that my dropped items just disappear sometimes. :P
That's all for now. I look forward to the next version. It's fun. :)
Sereg:
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 --- Okay! I just finished playing a version 0.7.1 game and I won! :D
--- End quote ---
Congratulations. I'm amazed you managed it with so many healing items left - then again, you *are* More Angelic Than Not, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised =P
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---At one point, I got hit by a virdian aura and didn't die, (it brought me down to "heavily wounded") so it either has a somewhat wide range of damage or the amulet of protection, which protects from physical attacks, saved me.
--- End quote ---
Most monsters do in fact have a wide range on their damage. Depending on what armor you were wearing, that may also have helped (tip: armor resistances function differently than the resistances on other item types ;))
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---I have some more notes, of course. I'll start with comments about the differences between this version and the previous one. The different display without the inventory and equipment visible threw me at first, but I got used to it. That being said, you might want to re-think what information you display on the left side. If you want to cut down on how busy the screen is, that's fine, but the information that you leave there should be stuff that the player needs the most often. Having the time, health, and sanity levels is fine, but I wouldn't expect the player to need to know all their individual resistances except when they put on something new. Same with evasion and accuracy ratings. I would put all of those on a separate screen, because they're stats that you would only want to look at once in a long while. However, the state of your weapon, armour, and how full your lamp are would be much more useful to have there. You're gonna want to know if your equipment is about to break or if you're about to be plunged into darkness. (Though I admit I've never used any item to the point that it broke; that's probably something I should test)
--- End quote ---
It *is* still possible to switch back to the original screen layout for full access to everything at once. That said, you make some excellent points - I will see about redesigning the compressed interface to present more critical information.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---I also encountered a number of bugs. I'll start with the bugs that were absent from previous versions but started appearing in this version...
"The giant red rathits you." There's no space between the creature's name and what follows. This happens every time any enemy hits me.
--- End quote ---
Fixed as of the current version.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---Okay, using "targeting" mode works for viewing terrain features now, but now, it doesn't identify items as I walk over them. I have to use targeting mode constantly for items on the ground, which is a bit of a nuisance.
The game no longer displays the last few messages at a time as it does in the previous version; it only shows the last message, and as a result, it seems that I sometimes miss important messages, such as if an enemy gets multiple swings at me, it only shows the last swing, so I only see "it misses me," but I still take damage.
It no longer displays how injured the enemy is after I hit them. It doesn't show it when I use targeting mode either.
--- End quote ---
All related to the new compressed interface - for now, these problems can be avoided with the expanded version, but as above, I'll see about redesigning the compressed interface to address these issues - they're certainly bothersome enough to be well worth fixing.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---On the plus side, fire water seems to not give me infinite oil any more. :P (I never found a use for that stuff, by the way)
--- End quote ---
I am glad to hear this, because I went over the code in detail and couldn't find any reason why that would have been happening. If it ever comes up again, please let me know, with as much other information about the state of the game as it's feasible for you to provide. As far as the use, my autopsy may provide you with some clues...
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---Is there a way to have the field of view pan around without actually walking to that place? It would be nice to be able to survey the level to look for unexplored areas, so I know where to go.
--- End quote ---
Not yet, and not planned for the near future. I will almost definitely add it once I begin to introduce larger levels, but for now I'm going to leave this one on the back burner, sorry =\
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---Sometimes, I have to unlock doors twice. Like it says "The lock falls open with a click," and then I "apply" it again and it displays "The lock falls open with a click," a second time and then I have to apply it a third time for it to actually open the door.
--- End quote ---
Some doors are protected by multiple layers of security measures. However, these tend to have a different graphical appearance until you break the outer layers.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---There appears to be no message for the lamp going out if it happens while you're walking, rather than while you're in the middle of an activity like unlocking a door.
--- End quote ---
I suspect this is due to the much smaller message recall in compression mode(meaning the message is probably overwritten before you have a chance to see it), but I'll take a look at it.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---The amount of oil in the lamp continues going down, even if you turn the lamp off. (And here, I thought I was being clever, turning it off while unlocking doors to save oil) :P
--- End quote ---
This is unintended. Quite a simple fix, though, so I've patched it for the next release.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---I notice that the message display cuts words in the middle if they go off the end of the line, such as with the message, "Your lamp does not seem to be compatible with this fluid." (I took a screenshot if you want to see what I mean)
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately, this is a consequence of the compressed interface also. The info window uses a very basic wrap method to display messages, which produces the behavior you've described. The actual message window is actually a different type of window which uses a more advanced wrapping function(since that type of window is intended for displaying longer messages which are expected to wrap, while the info window is intended for short descriptions that would interfere with the descriptions on other lines if it wraps using the advanced method). I'll add this to my list of things to consider for the redesign.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---I witnessed the disappearing dropped items phenomenon again. This time, I dropped my leather vest to make room in my inventory so I could look at a pile of items to find out what was in there. I dropped the vest in a free square and it appeared on the ground, but at some point while I was rummaging through the pile of items, it vanished and was nowhere to be found. Interestingly, when I tried to use targeting mode on the square where the vest was, it generated an error message. It generated a new error message each time I tried to look at the square. I'll attach them to this post in a zip file.
It happened again; a noble cuirass vanished after being dropped on the ground and it generated an error when I tried to look at the spot it previously was. I actually saw it disappear this time.
Oh, hey! My leather vest came back! :o I don't know what caused it, but it re-appeared in the same spot I had previously left it.
It happened again with a falchion. I don't know what the pattern is. I guess I have to accept that my dropped items just disappear sometimes. :P
--- End quote ---
This is bizarre. I've dealt with the previous lost drop issue you mentioned(turned out the method for replacing an existing worn item with a new one for that slot from inventory wasn't bothering to check that the inventory could hold the existing item, and as a result didn't care about putting it somewhere else if adding it to the inventory failed), but I suspect this is something different. I'll take a look at those error messages and see if I can work out what's going on.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 12:32 ---That's all for now. I look forward to the next version. It's fun. :)
--- End quote ---
Glad you enjoyed it, and I really appreciate your feedback. I'll do my best to squash all of the bugs you found =P I'll shortly post a new release, and it may have introduced new ones - some of the features gave me loads of trouble at first, and while I've dealt with all the issues I am aware of, there could easily be more lurking.
Edit: After checking the error reports, I have a theory on what might be causing them, but I can't replicate it. It's possible some of the debugging I did in related areas of the code for the current release has already resolved it, but do let me know if the issue persists.
Additionally, I can confirm that you are not 2Deving my autopsy files ;) checksums are a wonderful thing.
Edit2: I have rebuilt the compressed interface to supply significantly more information. Turns out the message window wasn't the one that supported advanced wrapping - that still wraps unintelligently. The Lore screen is the one that wraps properly and has tons of extra formatting tools... I'll look into possibly updating the message pane, but because of its scrolling capability, that may be a bit more challenging to do.
Additionally, disembodied map exploration will probably be easier than I originally anticipated, so it may creep in earlier rather than later - it's certainly not my highest priority update, but if it's simple to do it's more likely I'll tackle it soon.
Edit3:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Autopsy: 07 Feb 2019 22:30:03
Game time played: 0 days 00:48:53.049
Killed by tomb serpent on level 5
Total XP: 1002
Equipped Items:
an ancient falchion (+2, 4d6+4) [Moderately Damaged]
<no item equipped>
<no item equipped>
an ancient chestplate [Slightly Damaged]
an ancestral pendant
Carried Items:
<45> a steel cinquedea (+2, 2d4+1) [Undamaged]
<70> an ancient khopesh (+3, 2d8+2) [Undamaged]
<25> an oil lamp <lamp oil:40%>
<85> a leather vest [Slightly Damaged]
<5> 1x flask [lamp oil] (100%)
<5> 1x flask [fire water] (100%)
<4> 1x vial [medicine] (80%)
Kills:
47x giant red rat
7x cave worm
3x grave worm
3x tomb serpent
[checksum: 1abec1f2]
--- End code ---
Seems your strategy of turning your light off to open doors is not without its dangers...
Tormuse:
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 18:31 --- Congratulations. I'm amazed you managed it with so many healing items left - then again, you *are* More Angelic Than Not, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised =P
--- End quote ---
The amulet of protection may have helped me avoid damage, but even without that, it's generally not too hard to avoid damage; I'm long accustomed to waiting until enemies approach me so that I can hit them first.
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 18:31 --- It *is* still possible to switch back to the original screen layout for full access to everything at once.
--- End quote ---
It is? Is there a key for that or something? (Maybe I should have looked closer at the menu options)
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 18:31 --- Some doors are protected by multiple layers of security measures. However, these tend to have a different graphical appearance until you break the outer layers.
--- End quote ---
In that case, perhaps it should have different messages like, "you open the first lock," or "you open one of the locks," or "you open the last of the locks."
--- Quote from: Sereg on February 07, 2019, 18:31 ---Additionally, I can confirm that you are not 2Deving my autopsy files ;) checksums are a wonderful thing.
--- End quote ---
Ahaha! I didn't realize "2Deving" is a verb. :D What does it say about me that I think it's hilarious that that's his legacy? :)
Sereg:
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 22:37 ---The amulet of protection may have helped me avoid damage, but even without that, it's generally not too hard to avoid damage; I'm long accustomed to waiting until enemies approach me so that I can hit them first.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps I made it too powerful? But then it's also one of the rarer types - and I feel like I'd be making a pretty big mistake if I try to balance my game around your capabilities, lol...
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 22:37 ---It is? Is there a key for that or something? (Maybe I should have looked closer at the menu options)
--- End quote ---
Yes, it's a checkbox on the fourth menu - unfortunately, it does not operate at run time - you'll need to change the option and then re-load the game for it to take effect. It should be possible to change that - I'll look into it.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 22:37 ---In that case, perhaps it should have different messages like, "you open the first lock," or "you open one of the locks," or "you open the last of the locks."
--- End quote ---
This is slightly less feasible due to how the doors are implemented, but I should be able to come up with something hacky that'll do the trick.
--- Quote from: Tormuse on February 07, 2019, 22:37 ---Ahaha! I didn't realize "2Deving" is a verb. :D What does it say about me that I think it's hilarious that that's his legacy? :)
--- End quote ---
This is the Chaosforge forums, where anyone can become a verb if they're sufficiently successful at circumventing a feature of the game. I turned a challenge mode into a shortcut to victory, he turned a record of in-game accomplishment into a demonstration of text editing talent. Kornel's mortem system is a brilliant concept, which is why I've implemented mine in a very similar way, but it is 2Dev that inspired me to add a security feature to my system =P In any case, you too can become a verb if you like - although I'll warn you that Tormusing doors is not without drawbacks beyond those I demonstrated in my most recent autopsy post.
Edit: As of A0.7.6, compression mode can be toggled at runtime, and doors give better messages, among other things.
Edit2: Quick patch to fix an issue with runtime compression toggling breaking inventory and equipment modes. Last one for the week, gone for the weekend.
Edit3: I lied, here's Alpha 0.7.7 - actors no longer need to attack before they interrupt as long as they are adjacent to the player(so it's safer to run-wait, or otherwise use repetitive commands). I've also adjusted base move and attack speeds closer together(tradeoff - it's now no longer possible to get an absurdly large number of attacks in on an enemy that moves next to you).
Tormuse:
I just played a round of 0.7.6... (I didn't realize there's a 0.7.7 now) and died mostly due to silliness on my part. :P
Spoiler: Here's the autopsy (click to show/hide)Autopsy: 08 Feb 2019 21:47:00
Game time played: 0 days 00:53:45.334
Killed by mummified noble on level 8
Total XP: 3602
Equipped Items:
a steel cinquedea (+2, 2d4+1) [Heavily Damaged]
<no item equipped>
<no item equipped>
a leather vest [Ruined]
an ancestral pendant
Carried Items:
<70> an ancient khopesh (+3, 2d8+2) [Undamaged]
<105> an ancient falchion (+2, 4d6+4) [Undamaged]
<35> an Atlantean torch <no fuel>
<110> an ancient chestplate [Undamaged]
<10> 2x flask [lamp oil] (100%)
<35> 7x flask [sacred oil] (100%)
<8> 2x ancient vial [clear elixir] (100%)
Kills:
53x giant red rat
17x cave worm
6x grave worm
15x tomb serpent
2x swarm of tiny scarabs
1x albino tiger
[checksum: 17bb1b6f]
There was a combination of things that led to my death. Firstly, I was trying to see what happens if I let an item's durability wear down to zero, so I wasn't using my best weapon or armour. Secondly, I was about to encounter the first undead enemy of the game and I wanted to see what would happen if I killed him without seeing him. (If it would break the programming for the message it shows when you first see one) So I turned off my lamp, without realizing that my inventory was full, so it caused me to drop the lamp on the ground. I ended up flailing around blindly and didn't even see what killed me. :P
I found a lot fewer treasure rooms in this game than the previous one, so I had a lot less equipment, including healing sources. I'm not sure if that's rotten luck or if you changed probabilities. Oh well...
Some more notes:
If I switch compressed mode on and off a few times, the game slows down to the point that it's unplayable. (Like there's a half second delay after each button press)
It still does the thing where it goes back and forth between "You fail to close the door" and "You fail to open the door."
"The grave worm's attack interrupts you!" It said this message when my lock-picking was interrupted while my lamp was out. (to save oil) It probably shouldn't identify the creature that's doing the interrupting if I can't see it.
Using targeting mode on a monster doesn't show how injured it is unless you select it by pushing enter. Not the most intuitive thing. Any reason it doesn't display that when you just hover over the monster?
An Atlantean torch? That's new! :) Could this be what the fire water uses? (Too bad I never found any) :(
I am overly amused by using the "alter" command on altars and being told that the altar can not be altered. :)
I can resume game after I died! Pushing "resume game" shows the last screen I died on and the game is frozen. No key inputs work and the menus don't work either. I couldn't even quit or otherwise close the window except by going into Task Manager and killing it from there. I suspect this may be related to the fact that my last action of the game was to heal myself at the same time as I was being killed.
One more thing I've been meaning to ask: What's the "view character" button on the main menu for? It doesn't seem to do anything.
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