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Author Topic: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…  (Read 379 times)

Dezhitse

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[0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« on: January 26, 2020, 10:38 »

Somebody asked me to post a Post Mortem,
so here we go.

In 0.8.6' patch notes there were something like «We were only able to beat this challenge on Easy». Well, challenge accepted.
I knew that the only viable choice for this challenge was Scout, even with the introduction of hacking, for one simple reason: there are almost no weapons in lategame, so the only way to succeed is to run. And Scout can not only run, he can run directly to the exit, because you can always see it on the minimap. Armed with some intuition about map generation, I decided to go on.

He knew that the beginning won't be that hard. There were a lot of enemies with guns you can pick up and use, so he prepared his .44 revolver and started picking up guards one by one in the doorway. Ammunition is more valuable than health, so he was firing slowly, one by one, carefully aiming each shot to achieve maximum possible hit rate. He had to trade his health for the entire run, because «Steady Shot» would be out of his reach this time. .44 revolver ran out of bullets quickly, so he picked up two 9mm pistols, leaving his beloved Golden Gun behind until he killed everybody on this floor.
Golden Gun was a precious resource, too precious to use: only six bullets. Actually though, it is only five, because the last one should remain in this gun for the final showdown. Wait, it is four, because he discharged first bullet into former guard on Callisto L2 by accident. Oh, crap.

Two weapon slots, one of which are used for carrying the Golden Gun, is a real bottleneck. However, on level two he picked up Hellrunner L1 in hopes of beelining to Running; at least here, on Callisto, you can always find a gun or two to spare, right? Right? Well, Callisto L4 had proven him wrong: security bots and fiends everywhere, and not a single soldier on sight. He almost ran out of bullets for 9mm and was forced to spend one bullet from Golden Gun to finish off fire fiend. The plan was to find an assault rifle here and get to the Military Barracks to get some sweet, sweet experience, but he had to bail out to Callisto L5 in desperation instead. The run was over at this point, but wait, what is this? Two soldiers were standing right next to the acid barrels, that's cool!

By the way, the real trick is to not forget to pick up the Golden Gun before you get to the next level. I lost one of my runs due to this

Valhalla Spaceport was quite generous in terms of weapons, so he decided to finish off everything that moves here to get maximum possible experience. Hellrunner L1+L2, Running and Skilled L1 were all in his pockets, and he was only level 5, playing a very risky game of «I only have one full chaingun to finish off everybody in Europa L1», one fully loaded auto shotgun for Europa L2 and so on. Level 6 gifted him with so much desired Gun Hoarder, which made everything a little bit easier. A ton of multitools and a bit of luck = hacked turrets and cluttered inventory (yes, I was still able to clutter 10 slots without having a single bullet). Luring ravagers into hacked turrets proved to be a great idea to get some more experience.

Europa Central Dig was the first level to employ the technique known as run, Io L1 was the last level to not employ it. Golddigger was the last skill he picked just to make sure not to skip any of the loot boxes on the way: even useless ammo boxes restore 10 points of class power each. Stealth + Running proved to be a great combo too. Somewhere on Io, he got into trouble: a couple of exalted ravagers blocked the exit elevator room, but he lured them out and used CRI phase kit to try again. Gateway almost killed him, but technique known as «medkits hoarding» helped a lot. Also, somewhere on Io he found a red armor thanks to Golddigger trait.

He entered Beyond with only two bullets in his Golden Gun, an empty chaingun, an empty shotgun and a couple of grenades. Luckily, the elevator to the next level is close, just go! Beyond L2, a couple of ravagers, exit is, again, very close, just run through their bullets. Beyond L3, a ton of enemies around, smoke grenades got to the rescue and, again, running. Two hellish soldiers blocked the narrow hallway: stealth, some maneuvering and the last remaining krak grenade solved this problem. One stimpack to get class bar from 15 to 25 points, stealth again and straight to the exit, trying not to hug stray siege ravager on the way.

Precipice of Defeat.
Two bullets in his Golden Gun.
Boom.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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My little outdated achievement «guide» for Jupiter Hell

Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2020, 10:54 »

Congratz :D. The story reads really well too! I like the fact that AoNYR actually has people employing different tactics. The sad part is the reliance on scout due to stair running. I wonder if we can do something about that - I think tech could be almost doable on this challenge if it weren't for beyond.
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Andizee

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2020, 12:57 »

Cool, thanks for the post, and congratulations again!

A Tech is traditionally a master of items -- what is missing for AoNY is an item that allows running.
If stimpack could do that -- and also if stimpacks could be guaranteed from medical stations -- then with Tinkerer a Tech could stock up stimpacks enough to run when needed, and Remote Hacker must be very strong on this challenge, too.
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Dezhitse

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2020, 13:57 »

Yeah. Due to the Beyond, I haven't even considered other classes, Scout is simply the only choice here.
Not only due to its abilities, but due to the fact that it is the only class which can recover his power without killing enemies (and using stimpacks). In Beyond, killing is pretty much impossible on New York Reload.
To me however, this challenge is okay as it is. That's a challenge which restricts you from shooting things in a game all about shooting things. Of course it might require certain class/skill combinations!

Stimpack actually increases running speed by 20%, as far as I know, as well as all other actions. But it is only for five turns (twenty for military version), while Scout's Hellrunner is permanent + Stealth works for 8 turns (12 if Skilled L1, that's the only reason why I took it).
Maybe it could be possible to reset until you find ADV powered armor somewhere, but that's… meh
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 14:11 by Dezhitse »
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My little outdated achievement «guide» for Jupiter Hell

Tormuse

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2020, 17:42 »

Nice one!  :D  And nice rundown of your gameplay.  :)

I haven't had a lot of success in AoNYR so far, mind you, I've been playing at UV.  I'd really like to see if I can put the hacking ability to use in this challenge some time.
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Andizee

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2020, 03:54 »

Great, it's good to know about the stimpack. I actually was not sure what "Stimmed" did, I only suspected it increased action speed. I can now see it here https://jupiterhell.fandom.com/wiki/Stimmed that it increases dodge by 20% and speed of all actions by 20% (by the way, I presume it means reducing the action cost by 20%, which means performing actions 25% faster). This is nowhere as good as running that increased dodge by 30% and doubles the moving speed.

I always use stimpacks as medkits. Because of limited inventory space I prefer medkits that drop more often and stack up to 3. I am clearly underusing stimpacks.

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khiijol

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2020, 10:29 »

incredible! i still suspect this challenge is beatable with tech on easy. beyond l1 provides two exit points (arena is probably not clearable unless you have a good cache of ammo - i'll have to do some non-NYRL runs on easy to see how many exactly of each enemy spawn - but you can avoid mobs alltogether by just running to the exit), and beyond l2 you be able to get lucky to find a staircase to beyond l3. im not sure if beyond l3 is fixed in layout, but all the times i've been there its the one that poses the biggest challenge without the ability to run away/stealth to the exit. presumably a healthy golden gun - or at least one with more than one bullet in it - would help quite a bit, as would a decent stack of grenades. i've found that one of the biggest helpers in the game is relying on the natural monster tendency to infight and shoot through each other in the back. if you can position an archreaver in front of an armored ravager, there is a good chance the ravager might kill the archreaver for you without you having to spend a shot
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Andizee

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2020, 14:13 »

Arena is not clearable but exitable, so one could still go into Arena if this is the first elevator to find in B1.

Yes, there could be some clever way to help Tech in this challenge. Like recharging one bullet of golden gun by inserting a P mod. I suppose if advanced assemblies are introduced, they can create new ways to make Tech viable in AoNY
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Dezhitse

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2020, 15:32 »

UV New York Reload? No wai

I wanted to write a long essay about why I think running anything other than Scout is too luck dependent even on Easy and is not worth it for me unless I am a complete masochist.
Then I just got to the game to test something and, well, this happened
on my first try

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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2020, 16:33 »

Hah! Now can we get a tech to round this out? :P
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khiijol

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2020, 18:08 »

lol fantastic
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Tormuse

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 02:05 »

I had a pretty good Technician AoNYR game going the other day by spiking up to Remote Hack.  I managed to clear the first three levels, but I guess I got too greedy on the fourth.  I had the opportunity to go to the exit, and decided to stay and fight some exalted soldiers instead.  (I really wanted their 7.62 rifles)  :P
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Dezhitse

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 04:48 »

I'll try c:

Also tested this out
It seems that you can't skip Beyond L2/L3 through the Arena until every monster is dead.

This would have been too easy, I guess!
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Andizee

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 06:22 »

Also tested this out
It seems that you can't skip Beyond L2/L3 through the Arena until every monster is dead.
But you can skip a large part of Beyond 1 through the Arena if you are lucky to find it early in B1. The Arena entrance is often closer to the entry point in B1, in my experience. There is an exit elevator to B2 from Arena, as far as I remember, is that right?
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khiijol

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2020, 07:52 »

yes, you can bypass the arena altogether by staying outside of the circle of stones and going directly to B2

if (and this might be a big if) you had something like three fully loaded plasma pistols going in plus a few rounds in the golden gun it might be clearable. UV spawns something like six of each monster type, which obviously wouldn't be doable, but should be far less on E
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Tormuse

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2020, 14:40 »

This thread has made me realize that there aren't any Steam achievements for Angel of New York Reload.  (Or Angel of Doom, for that matter)  And now that I really look, except for the challenge achievements, the in-game achievements don't map on to the Steam achievements at all.
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Dezhitse

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2020, 03:27 »

Yeah, I figured that out the hard way~

Angel of Doom and Angel of New York Reload are both tricky as hell.
Probably that's the reason why they are not in the achievements list.
and that's great, because I have no idea how to clear NY Reload on Hard to get the gold badge.

Finally wrapped this challenge up, after approximately three failed runs
Tech is doable, as it turns out, but, in my opinion, it is easier to do as the Marine than the Technician: at least you can tank hits and run as the Marine, while as Technician you can do neither of those.

Found an ADV green powered armor with +20% move speed at the beginning, kept it till the final boss.
Also, inventory cluttering is real even without the ammunition! I've had to pick Packrat L1 and was still unable to carry everything I wanted!

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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: [0.8.7|M|AoNY|Sc|7|YAVP] Well…
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 11:46 »

I decided not to add achievements for a while - I'll be adding some challenges, modifying them, and possibly removing some - I'll add achievements for those that remain and are considered "fun" and "relatively doable"
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