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Author Topic: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy  (Read 396 times)

khiijol

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[0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« on: February 03, 2020, 19:20 »

starting frenzy trait here gave an incredible advantage - frenzy x5 with just the 9mm calibrated was doing ridiculous damage, i think up to 165+ on bots with headshot. im not sure how damage is calculated with this exactly. nice bonus find was the adv revolver which was just as powerful was as the P2A standard, but had +50 crit bonus. i found a vampiric mod which came a little too late to be super useful, but its a cool idea. this was my first game since starting 0.8.8, and first win in a few weeks, so dare i tempt fate and say its almost too easy?

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Andizee

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2020, 01:53 »

Congrats! Have you tried the Headshot built with Scout in 0.8.7 or earlier? I wonder if Headshot with Tech feels stronger.
I also had one attempt in 0.8.8, AoMr as Scout Gunsliger built (YASD). I used .44 revolver+Adv 9mm pistol as main weapons and got into serious ammo management problems. Using .44 ammo with Gunsliger, at least until Scavenger is online, seems suboptimal.
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Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2020, 05:43 »

Any .44 weapon is going to start running dry about halfway through Europa. But I did find a lot more of it in my last run and considered picking up two adv revolvers because of it, but opted not to. With enough P mods I think at least one 44 could take you all the way.
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khiijol

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2020, 09:35 »

i played a couple games with headshot in scout in 0.8.7, but no wins - the closest i got was somewhere in io, after opening up a door i was greeted with fast exalted reavers in my face, and while i was able to bring two down, the last one killed me

i have yet to play around with the mechanics of gunslinger, but it does seem on the surface like dualwielding revolvers would be untenable rather quickly. however, two unmodded 9mms would be enough to oneshot formers, and after the frenzy bonus kicks in, you should be able to bring down larger enemies without much trouble. a revolver (ideally adv in damage, but building to a P3A standard should be fine too) would be good in the third gun slot after you take gun hoarder to save for emergencies like armored ravagers, exalted melee enemies, etc. once you get into io, it seems like the logical choice would be to just ditch 9mm altogether and throw everything into two plasma pistols
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Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2020, 13:52 »

once you get into io, it seems like the logical choice would be to just ditch 9mm altogether and throw everything into two plasma pistols
Well, I would've done that in my last run but only one ever dropped. And to be fair, if you don't go to the CRI Labs, you are probably going to be ammo-starved before the end of Beyond. There's not as much energy cells as you think there is. It looks like it's everywhere, but enemies drop small amounts and *every* plasma weapon just chunks cells. Shotgun is 4, Rifle is 3, Pistols are 2. I'd say the pistol is the worst one for damage vs cells spent, but I haven't actually done the math on it so I might be wrong.

But just the pure fact that even with pistols, your cell count is 50% of what it looks like is a pretty nasty hit. And with Gunslinger, you're now chonking two guns, so 4 per shot. Same as the shotgun.
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khiijol

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2020, 14:10 »

i dont remember exact figures but a P3 plasma pistol + 20% utility was doing around 35 damage per shot so figure around 17/18 per cell, which performs slightly better than a P2 rifle and probably slightly less than a P2 shotgun with shotgun damage utility. with frenzy however, this goes up a great deal, and io on uv has a tendency for the cri to aggressively engage with other mobs, giving you entire rooms of dead marines with their cells behind. it would certainly be a more interesting juggling of the ammo types than a headshot build
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2020, 14:51 »

To be honest, the frenzy is a bug due to copying it from Angel of Shotgunnery O.o
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khiijol

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2020, 17:10 »

so i was right, it is too easy :)
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Bonedaddy

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2020, 08:28 »

Well, I would've done that in my last run but only one ever dropped. And to be fair, if you don't go to the CRI Labs, you are probably going to be ammo-starved before the end of Beyond. There's not as much energy cells as you think there is. It looks like it's everywhere, but enemies drop small amounts and *every* plasma weapon just chunks cells. Shotgun is 4, Rifle is 3, Pistols are 2. I'd say the pistol is the worst one for damage vs cells spent, but I haven't actually done the math on it so I might be wrong.

But just the pure fact that even with pistols, your cell count is 50% of what it looks like is a pretty nasty hit. And with Gunslinger, you're now chonking two guns, so 4 per shot. Same as the shotgun.
That would definitely explain why I was running low on plasma ammo near the end of my gunslinger victory run, and why I ended up having to dual wield the plasma gun and my 9mm together instead of two plasma guns in tandem.
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Tormuse

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2020, 10:15 »

...*every* plasma weapon just chunks cells. Shotgun is 4, Rifle is 3, Pistols are 2. I'd say the pistol is the worst one for damage vs cells spent, but I haven't actually done the math on it so I might be wrong.

I think you're right...  I'm not at my computer right now, but if memory serves, plasma shotguns do 60 damage with 4 cells, so 15 damage per cell...  plasma rifle does 12 damage per cell, and the plasma pistol does 22 damage per 2 cells, so 11 damage per cell.  That makes the pistol the weakest of them, which seems backwards; generally, the pistols are supposed to be the more ammo efficient weapons, that fire slower than rifles, but do more damage per shot.  Some re-balancing is probably in order.

To be honest, the frenzy is a bug due to copying it from Angel of Shotgunnery O.o

Ah, darn, I knew it was too good to be true.  :P
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Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2020, 13:18 »

I think you're right...  I'm not at my computer right now, but if memory serves, plasma shotguns do 60 damage with 4 cells, so 15 damage per cell...  plasma rifle does 12 damage per cell, and the plasma pistol does 22 damage per 2 cells, so 11 damage per cell.  That makes the pistol the weakest of them, which seems backwards; generally, the pistols are supposed to be the more ammo efficient weapons, that fire slower than rifles, but do more damage per shot.  Some re-balancing is probably in order.

Honestly, with how rare cells are overall (unless you're suicidal and brave the bot-ridden hellhole that is CRI Labs), simply giving the pistols a cell use of 1 seems like a good idea to me.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2020, 15:40 »

Honestly, with how rare cells are overall (unless you're suicidal and brave the bot-ridden hellhole that is CRI Labs), simply giving the pistols a cell use of 1 seems like a good idea to me.
I'm seriously considering that, but with the current OP Gunslinger that would make it even more OP. Maybe after I nerf Gunslinger a bit, I'll buff plasma pistols to 1 energy?
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Moonshine Fox

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Re: [0.8.8|U|Te|AoMr|YAVP] - pistol frenzy
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2020, 17:26 »

I'm seriously considering that, but with the current OP Gunslinger that would make it even more OP. Maybe after I nerf Gunslinger a bit, I'll buff plasma pistols to 1 energy?
Sounds reasonable to me. It's also a bit more intuitive and doesn't artificially inflate cell piles.
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