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Icy's Guide to Weapons, Armor, and Assemblies

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Icy:
(Reserved post if ever needed in the future.)

ZicherCZ:
Very solid guide again, great work.

I would have a little nitpick with the endgame sharpshooter build weapons, though. GCB is a solid weapon, of course, but it is utterly outmatched by a P3B2-combat pistol (White Death, as I call it). With single shots, GCB's 2d6 can't compare to White Death's 3d6, and you don't want to use GCB's semi-auto or auto modes due to automatic knockback on every shot, unless you can avoid it by precise positioning. It may be niche, but if you have Sharpshooter, SoG5 and White Death, and so happen to start a floor with a Cyberdemon in range, you can kill it in the 4s grace period without it being able to fire a single shot. Priceless.
Even a P3B2-vanilla pistol outdamages GCB with 2d7 damage.
The same goes for the Storm Bolter, firing two shots at once.
And finally, once you have SoG5, you have already reached the absolute firing speed cap of 0.1s, making technical mods on non-assemblies obsolete. The extra clip capacity from bulk mods is very useful here.

Icy:
Thanks for the response, the feedback is much appreciated!

Given the vast amount of possibilities, I have definitely done some theorycrafting for a few weapons and builds, as opposed to actual testing, so that's nice to hear from someone who has used pistols a fair bit. I definitely overlooked that Grammaton Cleric Beretta would be causing knockback, and even with firing in a straight line, additional shots would become less likely to hit. Sharpshooter helps with damage, but unlike Angel of Max Carnage, does not cover for accuracy.

Technical Packs likely don't belong on end-game pistols, that's true, but depending on the base, I'm not entirely sure what would be best to go on. Blasters definitely should have Nano because it eliminates the recharge delay and restores ammo just as you fire (unless you're using Bullet Dance). For other weapons, Agility Packs might likewise be obsolete, depending on how much Eagle Eye is used, and Technical Packs are likely not improving speed due to the in-game cap as mentioned. However, for non-assemblies, a pair of Nano Packs would first allow for restoring 1 ammo at a 5 action delay, and the second would remove the delay, so Combat Pistol (PPPNN) must surely be better than (PPPBB), as it would not need to reload and it would free up lots of inventory space. It would be very expensive though, for sure. I'm really not sure what the optimal pistol is when also considering assemblies.

I'll periodically make edits as I thoroughly learn more or if anyone gives any objectively better advice.

Icy:
To build further on your post and to explore pistols more in-depth because of how there isn't a clear winner at a quick glance, below is some calculations and details for various end-game pistols for all of masterless, Bullet Dance, and Sharpshooter builds.

Masterless

Dualgunner x1, Finesse x3, Son of a Gun x5, Son of a Bitch x5, Eagle Eye x5

Energy Pistol in Combat Pistol (P): 3d5, 15 Clip, Plasma Damage, uses Cells.
3d5 = 9 average + 10 bonus damage = 19 average Plasma damage with 13-25 range per shot.
=38 average Plasma damage with Dualgunner.

Storm Bolter Pistol in Combat Pistol (P): 1d10x2, 23 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
1d10 = 5.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 15.5 average Bullet Damage with 11-20 range per shot.
=31 average Bullet Damage with 22-40 range per burst.
=62 average Bullet Damage with Dualgunner.

Storm Bolter Pistol in Blaster (N): 1d8x2, Plasma Damage, infinite ammo.
1d8 = 4.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 14.5 average Plasma Damage with 11-18 range per shot.
=29 average Plasma Damage with 22-36 range per burst.
=58 average Plasma damage with Dualgunner.

Nanomanufacture Ammo in Combat Pistol (P): 3d4, Bullet Damage, infinite ammo.
3d4 = 7.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 17.5 average Bullet Damage with 13-22 range per shot.
=35 average Bullet damage with Dualgunner.

Demolition Ammo in Combat Pistol (F): 5d3, 15 Clip, Fire Damage, 3 Radius, uses Bullets.
5d3 = 10 average + 10 bonus damage = 20 average Fire Damage with 15-25 range per shot.
=40 average Fire Damage with Dualgunner.

Combat Pistol (PPPNN): 3d6, Bullet Damage, infinite ammo.
3d6 = 10.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 20.5 average Bullet Damage with 13-28 range per shot.
=41 average Bullet Damage with Dualgunner.

Blaster (PPPAN): 2d7, Plasma Damage, infinite ammo.
2d7 = 8 average + 10 bonus damage = 18 average Plasma Damage with 12-24 range per shot.
=36 average Plasma Damage with Dualgunner.

Trigun: 3d6, 6 Clip, Bullet Damage, used Bullets.
3d6 = 10.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 20.5 average Bullet Damage with 13-28 range per shot.

Anti-Freak Jackal: 5d3, 6 Clip, Fire Damage, 1 Radius, uses Bullets.
5d3 = 10 average + 10 bonus damage = 20 average Fire Damage with 15-25 range per shot.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (single): 2d6, 18 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
2d6 = 7 average + 10 bonus damage = 17 average Bullet Damage with 12-22 range per shot.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (semi-auto): 1d8x3, 18 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
1d8 = 4.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 14.5 average Bullet Damage with 11-18 range per shot.
=43.5 average Bullet Damage per burst.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (full-auto): 1d7x6, 18 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
1d7 = 4 average + 10 bonus damage = 14 average Bullet Damage with 11-17 range per shot.
=84 average Bullet Damage per burst.

If you can afford the bullets required and can avoid knocking enemies out of fire, Grammaton Cleric Beretta yields very high damage, but you'll also be reloading constantly, and on a per bullet basis, it's not very impressive. It's good if you need to unleash a large amount of ammo in a short time. For more general use, non-assembly Combat Pistol gives the highest damage per shot so there are no concerns of knockback. Blaster isn't too much weaker and has a better damage type while also only requiring one Nano Pack. Storm Bolter Pistol is also very powerful if you can be certain both shots are hitting, although a Blaster is much better as a base because of infinite ammo, or at worst, semi-infinite ammo. In my opinion, non-assembly Combat Pistol seems to be the way to go, but it's also a very expensive option.

Bullet Dance

Dualgunner x1, Finesse x3, Triggerhappy x2, Son of a Gun x5, Son of a Bitch x5

Note: Triggerhappy with Bullet Dance for semi-auto/full-auto Grammaton Cleric Beretta only adds 2 extra shots.

Energy Pistol in Combat Pistol (P): 3d5x3, +5 Accuracy (95% point blank), 15 Clip, Plasma Damage, uses Cells.
3d5 = 9 average + 10 bonus damage = 19 average Plasma damage with 13-25 range per shot.
=57 average Plasma Damage with 39-75 range per burst.
=54.15 average Plasma Damage when accuracy-factored.
=108.30 average Plasma Damage with Dualgunner.

Storm Bolter Pistol in Combat Pistol (P): 1d10x4, +3 Accuracy (84% point blank), 23 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
1d10 = 5.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 15.5 average Bullet Damage with 11-20 range per shot.
=62 average Bullet Damage with 44-80 range per burst.
=52.08 average Bullet Damage when accuracy-factored.
=104.16 average Bullet Damage with Dualgunner.

Storm Bolter Pistol in Blaster (N): 1d8x4, +1 Accuracy (62% point blank), 15 Clip, Plasma Damage, semi-infinite ammo.
1d8 = 4.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 14.5 average Plasma Damage with 11-18 range per shot.
=58 average Plasma Damage with 44-72 range per burst.
=35.96 average Plasma Damage when accuracy-factored.
=71.92 average Plasma Damage with Dualgunner.

Nanomanufacture in Combat Pistol (P): 3d4x3, +5 Accuracy (95% point blank), Bullet Damage, infinite ammo.
3d4 = 7.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 17.5 average Bullet Damage with 13-22 range per shot.
=52.5 average Bullet Damage with 39-66 range per burst.
=49.875 average Bullet Damage when accuracy-factored.
=99.75 average Bullet Damage with Dualgunner.

Demolition Ammo in Combat Pistol (F): 5d3x3, +5 Accuracy (95% point blank), 15 Clip, Fire Damage, 3 Radius, uses Bullets.
5d3 = 10 average + 10 bonus damage = 20 average Fire Damage with 15-25 range per shot.
=60 average Fire Damage with 45-75 range per burst.
=57 average Fire Damage when accuracy-factored.
=114 average Fire Damage with Dualgunner.

Combat Pistol (PPPNN): 3d6x3, +5 Accuracy (95% point blank), 15 Clip, Bullet Damage, semi-infinite ammo.
3d6 = 10.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 20.5 average Bullet Damage with 13-28 range per shot.
=61.5 average Bullet Damage with 39-84 range per burst.
=58.425 average Bullet Damage when accuracy-factored.
=116.85 average Bullet Damage with Dualgunner.

Blaster (PPPNN): 2d7x3, +3 Accuracy (84% point blank), 10 Clip, Plasma Damage, semi-infinite ammo.
2d7 = 8 average + 10 bonus damage = 18 average Plasma Damage with 12-24 range per shot.
=54 average Plasma Damage with 36-72 range per burst.
=45.36 average Plasma Damage when accuracy-factored.
=90.72 average Plasma Damage with Dualgunner.

Trigun: 3d6x3, +6 Accuracy (98% point blank), 6 Clip, Bullet Damage, used Bullets.
3d6 = 10.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 20.5 average Bullet Damage with 13-28 range per shot.
=61.5 average Bullet Damage with 39-84 range per burst.
=60.27 average Bullet Damage when accuracy-factored.

Anti-Freak Jackal: 5d3x3, +4 Accuracy (91% point blank), 6 Clip, Fire Damage, 1 Radius, uses Bullets.
5d3 = 10 average + 10 bonus damage = 20 average Fire Damage with 15-25 range per shot.
=60 average Fire Damage with 45-75 range per burst.
=54.6 average Fire Damage when accuracy-factored.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (single): 2d6x3, +5 Accuracy (95% point blank), 18 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
2d6 = 7 average + 10 bonus damage = 17 average Bullet Damage with 12-22 range per shot.
=51 average Bullet Damage with 36-66 range per burst.
=48.35 average Bullet Damage when accuracy-factored.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (semi-auto): 1d8x5, +3 Accuracy (84% point blank), 18 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
1d8 = 4.5 average + 10 bonus damage = 14.5 average Bullet Damage with 11-18 range per shot.
=72.5 average Bullet Damage with 55-90 per burst.
=60.9 average Bullet Damage when accuracy-factored.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (full-auto): 1d7x8, +1 Accuracy (62% point blank, 18 Clip, Bullet Damage, uses Bullets.
1d7 = 4 average + 10 bonus damage = 14 average Bullet Damage with 11-17 range per shot.
=112 average Bullet Damage with 88-136 range per burst.
=69.44 average Bullet Damage when accuracy-factored.

Because Bullet Dance blocks Eagle Eye, the inherent accuracy of each weapon becomes important. At a quick glance, Grammaton Cleric Beretta does the most damage per weapon, but will be constantly reloading and out of sync with your other gun. The other unique weapons are all outclassed. Non-assembly Combat Pistol yields the most damage, although it will be somewhat limited in firing since even with double Nano Pack, it only recharge 1 ammo per action, while you'll be bursting 3 with Bullet Dance. Non-assembly Blaster recharges 2 ammo per action and has a much better damage type, but has higher variance with its less reliable accuracy. In my opinion, I would go with Nanomanufacture Combat Pistol as you will be able to constantly burst without any ammo concerns at all, also freeing up inventory space, and because of the high accuracy, its damage is still one of the highest too. Furthermore, BBBN+P is quite a bit cheaper than some other choices. I believe it is the best pistol for Bullet Dance.

Sharpshooter

Finesse x3, Son of a Gun x5, Eagle Eye x5

Energy Pistol in Combat Pistol (P): 17 Plasma Damage, 15 Clip, uses Cells.

Storm Bolter Pistol in Combat Pistol (P): 25 Bullet Damage, 23 Clip, uses Bullets.

Storm Bolter Pistol in Blaster (N): 23 Plasma Damage, 15 Clip, semi-infinite ammo.

Nanomanufacture Ammo in Combat Pistol (P): 17 Bullet Damage, infinute ammo.

Demolition Ammo in Combat Pistol (F): 20 Fire Damage, 15 Clip, 3 Radius, uses Bullets.

Combat Pistol (PPPNN): 23 Bullet Damage, infinite ammo.

Blaster (PPPAN): 19 Plasma Damage, infinite ammo.

Blaster (PPSSN): 17 Plasma Damage, infinite ammo, no visiblity penalty.

Trigun: 23 Bullet Damage, 6 Clip, uses Bullets.

Anti-Freak Jackal: 20 Fire Damage, 6 Clip, 1 Radius, uses Bullets.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (single): 17 Bullet Damage, 18 Clip, uses Bullets.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (semi-auto): 39 Bullet Damage per burst, 18 Clip, uses Bullets.

Grammaton Cleric Beretta (full-auto): 72 Bullet Damage per burst, 18 Clip, uses Bullets.

Because Sharpshooter removes all damage variance and all the other traits provide enough speed and accuracy to max out any gun, the only differences is total damage, damage type, and ammo. Grammaton Cleric Beretta does huge damage in a burst, but can distort some of the shots if the enemy is knocked back outside of range, and it also requires a lot of ammo. It's still excellent if you have to very quickly dispose of an enemy. For general use, a non-assembly of Combat Pistol can provide infinite ammo and no need to reload or fill up your inventory space, while also providing very solid damage. Blaster can alternatively be used for a fairly big decrease in damage in order to have Plasma Damage instead, or even go with nicely fitting in no visibility penalty for far sniping. Storm Bolter Pistol in a Blaster is also very high damage for semi-infinite ammo (as you fire 2 and recharge 1 per action), although it also has the knockback concern as Grammaton Cleric Beretta. There isn't a quite clear winner, but I would say that the non-assembly Combat Pistol is the best for general use, although it comes at the expensive price of two Nano Packs.

---

tl;dr: Combat Pistol (PPPNN) if you're rich, Combat Pistol (PPPBB) is you want something cheap, Nanomanufacture Ammo Combat Pistol (P) if you're using Bullet Dance.

ZicherCZ:

--- Quote from: Icy on November 04, 2022, 15:10 ---Thanks for the response, the feedback is much appreciated!

--- End quote ---

You're welcome, and thanks for your response too.


--- Quote from: Icy on November 04, 2022, 15:10 ---Sharpshooter helps with damage, but unlike Angel of Max Carnage, does not cover for accuracy.

--- End quote ---

While this sentence is technically true, Sharpshooter is in fact well covered for accuracy by it's prerequisite EE3 and generally high accuracy of pistol-type weapons.. In fact, this means that unless you are running, you have already reached the hit chance cap for any pistol with +2 accuracy or better at maximum range. The only pistol with lesser accuracy is GCB on full-auto and storm bolter blaster (both at+1), which has it's hit chance still capped at up to five tiles, and even at greater distances then the hit chance is 95% compared to 98%. In case of the storm bolter blaster, this effect can be negated by slapping an agility mod on it, but there are much better options.

Running imposes an accuracy penalty of -2. This means that with EE3, running and at 6+ tiles distance, even these worst-accuracy pistols stand at 84% hit chance, storm bolter pistol (+2) would be at 91% and storm bolter combat pistol and GCB on semi-auto (+3) would stand at 95% percent. Every pistol of +4 base accuracy is still capped.

It's anyone's call, whether they would consider taking EE4 or EE5 to alleviate these minor penalties. I personally would not consider them even on AAo666.


--- Quote from: Icy on November 04, 2022, 15:10 ---Technical Packs likely don't belong on end-game pistols, that's true, but depending on the base, I'm not entirely sure what would be best to go on. Blasters definitely should have Nano because it eliminates the recharge delay and restores ammo just as you fire (unless you're using Bullet Dance). For other weapons, Agility Packs might likewise be obsolete, depending on how much Eagle Eye is used, and Technical Packs are likely not improving speed due to the in-game cap as mentioned. However, for non-assemblies, a pair of Nano Packs would first allow for restoring 1 ammo at a 5 action delay, and the second would remove the delay, so Combat Pistol (PPPNN) must surely be better than (PPPBB), as it would not need to reload and it would free up lots of inventory space. It would be very expensive though, for sure. I'm really not sure what the optimal pistol is when also considering assemblies.

--- End quote ---

I agree with pretty much everything here. With SoG3, a technical mod would bring firing speed from 0.40s to 0.34s, and with SoG4 the decrease would be from 0.20s to 0.17s. Considering that as a Sharpshooter you probably want to have SoG5 by player level 14, the earliest possible, they are all but completely obsolete. The same goes for agility mods due to the breakdown above - their effects are marginal, and even then only for certain weapons and/or running.

Note that SoG5 also completely obsoletes Finesse (unless you want Fin1 for Juggler).

I also very much agree on P3N2 combat pistol being a straight upgrade over P3B2. In fact, this covers the only weak point of combat pistol, the 1.8s reloading time. However, this lengthy time can also be alleviated by picking Reloader (0.72s at Rel3), and good luck finding two nano mods in a normal game. Even in a full AAo666 playthrough, I believe I found only four or five of them.

Edit: As a Sharpshooter, you are unlikely to use pistols to the point of completely excluding other weapons, mostly for corpse disposal and dealing with very large groups. However, these other weapons benefit from EE3 as well, rocket launchers and BFGs are very accurate themselves (starting at +4 for the vanilla rocket launcher), and even in the worst case scenario I could find, you would still be at 62% hit chance. That worst case scenario would be firing a burst cannon minigun (-1 accuracy) at 6+ tiles while running.

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