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Author Topic: Damage comparison  (Read 6988 times)

Karry

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Damage comparison
« on: May 04, 2007, 13:12 »

Why does RL (4-16 dmg) seems to be much stronger than Double Shotgun (12-36 dmg) ?

I experimented with a demon, with DS at point blank he took between 2 and 3 shots, with RL he took only 1 shot in 90% cases.
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Potman

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 13:20 »

Possibly because the DS damage is all those little shells put together. Even at point blank range, some of them will miss, which will result in less damage than there should be. Not sure about this.
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TFoN

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 13:46 »

It's 2 shells, many pellets. AFAIK, armour's applied per shell, which in this case's twice. So I don't know why it happend as Karry described it. As far as I can tell, it never takes me more than 3-4 short-range shells to take out demons, and I don't normally kill them with a single rocket either.

Karry

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 15:38 »

Next step : Hell Knight. With RL - 2-4 shots, with DS - 4+ shots.
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TFoN

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 16:03 »

Well, the HK has more armor, so this might simply make sense. If it takes 2-4 rockets, then a like number of DblSG shots'll cause 4-8 less damage (assuming 2 point of armor), which is considerable. Certainly, that's enough to routinely force an extra shot, and occasionally force an extra two. Anyway, this one's easy to test by doing the Wall at a lower difflvl, where there're HKs aplenty.

I just remembered there was some talk on introducing damage types. If it was, then this could be the entire reason.

Malek Deneith

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2007, 16:30 »

Damage types were for AliensRL not Doom.
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Zeb

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 16:31 »

Didn't someone say once that you get more damage with more knockback? Could that be going on?
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Firstblood

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2007, 16:38 »

I think I know the answer :)

Its because they are two different weapons, and they apply the damage very differently.

Assuming you fire a DSG at 4 sq range, it should take average 2 shots to kill a Demon.
A RL, should take 1 shot (as long as its a direct hit). With a normal SG, its 2-3 at point blank (so I don't know why its 2-3 point blank for your DSG).

Ok so you're wondering why 4d4 is doing more damage than 6d6? This is because they deal damage
differently.

If you fire the DSG at 1 sq range, you're still not hitting the demon with all of its firepower. You will notice because things behind the demon will take damage as well. So you are dealing 6d6, but not all in the same place. The demon won't take all 100% of the shotguns damage (shotguns have a very wide "inaccurate" spread, with a 100% chance to hit something within that spread, but individual pellets can hit targets behind)

Rockets work differently too. 4d4 is probably an approximation of the splash damage of a rocket, taking one in the chest means you take respectively more damage. A direct hit with a rocket launcher deals 100% of the rockets damage to that target.



I don't know about the damage and knockback thing. I know that knockback is highly related to damage dealt, this works in both Berserk! and DoomRL. The more damage dealt, the more knockback a target receives. Different monsters (and the player) have different weights which modify the final knockback value.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 16:41 by Firstblood »
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DaEezT

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2007, 17:42 »

I'll let you guys in on a secret about the RL and the BFG: The damage listed is just the impact, the blast also does damage.

Fingerzam: did you keep the IRC log of when Kornel spilled out the numbers?
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Firstblood

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2007, 17:52 »

Aha. Thats how I thought it worked. I assumed the impact damage was larger than the blast damage though. So 4d4 impact, and then something like 8d4 blast damage right? (dissipating with distance)

I had suspicions on the BFG when I used it against the CD. It seemed way too effective for 8d8, though at the time I put it down to how BFG worked in Doom (BFG worked intelligently, to spread the damage among enemies, so if there was more enemies, it dealt each of them slightly less, it also dissipated its damage over distance from where the blast exploded). Since CD is on his own, he takes more damage than when the BFG is used normally, that was my assumption.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 17:57 by Firstblood »
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Karry

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2007, 22:44 »

Then wouldnt it be more fair to write "RL 4d4 + something something" ?
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DaEezT

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2007, 03:23 »

Then wouldnt it be more fair to write "RL 4d4 + something something" ?
I don't know about fair, but it would be less confusing at least.

Kornel didn't know about the splash damage himself and only found out when he started working on the game again. :p
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TFoN

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2007, 09:58 »

Hah! A *slight* detail, eh? But this doesn't answer my question: why have I been killing demons with 2-4 SG shots at farther than point-blank range?

Firstblood

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2007, 10:13 »

3-4 sounds quite normal to me. 2 sounds lucky, but probably possible, just in my experience a close range shotty blast doesn't normally deal more than 10 damage (unless its point blank), but I don't use shottys that often, they are fired at me more. Pretty sure without experimenting that 3 shotty blasts generally will kill a Demon if you're not firing farther than 4 squares away.

Of course, if a Demon bleeds on the first shot, its understandable that it will take less shots to kill it, as bleeding damage is a hefty chunk out of a Demon's health (can be nearly 20% in one bleed).
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 10:16 by Firstblood »
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TFoN

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Re: Damage comparison
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2007, 12:47 »

Quote
2 sounds lucky, but probably possible,
Well, I never said they were in *perfect* health :) They were at least near full health when I tried, but a few had already taken minor damage. Minor means 3-4 HPs less, from a stray bullet or the outskirts of a SG blast.

I wasn't actively looking for bleeding, so I can't say much about that (it wasn't an active search for results, I had just happened to cut down circumstantial demons with a circumstantial shotgun here and there :) ). It didn't seem that they were bleeding often, though, and if they were - that accounts for the 2-shot cases pretty well.
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