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SoG works or not ?

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MedO:
I'd also prefer a "sequential" speed bonus, so that speed mods/traits would give the following energy costs:

SoaG(1): 1000 - (1000*20%) = 800
SoaG(2): 800 - (800*20%) = 640
SoaG(3): 640 - (640*20%) = 512

Add Finesse to this:
Fin(1): 512 - (512*10%) = 461
Fin(2): 461 - (461*10%) = 415

...and three speed mods:
S1: 415 - (415*10%) = 373
S2: 373 - (373*10%) = 336
S3: 336 - (336*10%) = 302

Or alternatively, one could do away with the minimum energy cost... I'd love to shoot myself backward in time ;)

BDR:
Looks to me like that makes speed mods nearly useless when not appearing in quantity after taking SoG 3 and Fin 2, not to mention sort of ruins the speed-shooter playstyle and makes it much less effective, possibly to the point where it no longer is worth going for speed alone.  I like being able to stare down a Mancubus, bust out an entire clip, then move into the shadows to reload without taking a single hit.  This would take that away from me. >:(

And you cannot tell me that as it is it's overpowered; I still have to deal with things that after such a clip will probably tear me apart even if I do go into coward mode first, and wide open spaces with no places to hide.

TFoN:

--- Quote from: Zeb on May 15, 2007, 14:40 ---But then you have an issue with your success or failure being determined entirely by whether you find speed mods or not.

--- End quote ---
I seriously doubt it. Notice that right now, SoaG's being buffed up, period. You're getting a +1 to damage, and not in fact losing the +2. +1 to damage is at least equal to 1 damage mod, as it's a sure bonus to damage, as opposed to increasing a damage die, a bonus which statistically doesn't always come into effect - 2d4+1={3..9}, 2d5={2..10}. At SoaG(3), with mindmg=5, you'll be knocking things so far back so often, you're likely to have them out of LOS by the time they'll react. So, not only will you not need so much speed, I promise you it's going to become overpowered if you'll have both easy speed *and* high damage.

I like speed bonuses the way they are now. They're clear and to-the-point, and with the minimum energy cost, it can only be "exploited" so far.
Sequential bonuses also have another problem.

Fin(1):    1000 - 100 = 900
SoaG(1): 900 - 180 = 720
Fin(1):    720 - 72 = 648

That's the "same" 40% bonus gained from SoaG(2), i.e. 640. It might seem trivial, but beyond the irregularity which will make certain trait sequences give better bonuses, those 8 points do a lot of harm in the long run for anyone unprepared for them. Monsters'll "suddenly" take a free turn, once those points add up right. The irregularity problem's easily dealt with, by letting SoaG give 2 sequential 10% bonuses instead of 1 20% bonus. The second problem's bigger, as these <10 cost "fractions"'ll be coming up anyway.

MedO:
Consider how it works now: If you are down to 200 energy per shot, and apply a single speed mod, the mod makes you shoot TWICE AS FAST. I don't think this is such a good idea, though you could say these enourmous boosts are a reward for putting so many points into speed.

And I do think this is currently overpowered. I won in AoMr recently, (only HNTR, but I'm not that good). Most games ended before I found the first mods, but as soon as my advanced pistol was at full speed, it was a milk run. At no point did I feel unsafe, when an Arch-Vile came into view he died with maybe the time to attack me once (usually I run for the stairs whenever I see or hear one), and I never even found out how Mancubi are supposed to attack, because they never found the time. I cleared the Mortuary, with a single pistol, and my only real concern was that my ammo might run out (I only needed half of what I had, though). AoMr is supposed to be harder than playing normally I thought, but with the advanced pistol, I wouldn't ever want to swap my weapon anyway...

TFoN:
Well, if SoaG's reduced to -10% and the mod bug's fixed, putting the max number of speed mods applicable at 3, AFAIK the minimum cost to fire a pistol'll be:

1000 (base) - 300 (SoaG(3)) - 200 (Fin(2)) - 300 (speedmod(3)) = 200

which means that a 10% bonus'll never actually double firing rate. But I understand your point, and as you put it, AoMr's supposed to be a *challenge*. So, how about removing the advanced pistol? Give the player a regular pistol instead. With normal weapons being slightly moddable, you'll be able to buff it up with a damgae mod to a 2d5 pistol, just like the one used on v0985, which worked fine to challenge and was passable. The damage increase from traits'll anyway only make it more so.

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