DRL > Requests For Features

Speed and reaction

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Potman:
Yeah, I find it a bit unrealistic (not to mention unfair) that former humans and sergeants and such are able to react immediately after the player comes to their vicinity, even when they're nothing but rotting corpses with no brains inside. This is especially annoying if it's a sergeant with some barrels around.
Like, I dunno, would it be possible to increase some monsters' reaction time? For instance, when former sergeant sees me, it'll go "Huh...?" for a second before firing. Would be kinda like a monster generator: They won't act immediately. I guess those monsters generated, as well as those in the player's immediate vicinity right in the beginning of each level, just stand there dumbfounded about how I just appeared from nowhere. Why couldn't they do the same thing during the game?
And now, here's the catch: Sometimes, if the monster's reaction time would be really slow - such as with former humans/sergeants(/captains/commandos) - once they finally manage to react, they will fire the player even if he wasn't there anymore. With this, it'd be possible to have these cool movie firefights where the protagonist fires at the evil guys, and then ducks for cover, during which time the bullets will fly at him even when the enemies can't even see him anymore. That'd be so cool.

Eh?

TFoN:

--- Quote ---Yeah, I find it a bit unrealistic (not to mention unfair) that former humans and sergeants and such are able to react immediately after the player comes to their vicinity, even when they're nothing but rotting corpses with no brains inside.
--- End quote ---
Y'know what, I agree completely! The zombies I meet IRL act entriely different! :P

But seriously (as far as that goes), I don't think they're zombies. IIRC they're possessed/demonically defiled living humans.

Other than that:
It seems to me that for the most part they don't often react before you enter their LOS. From my experience, most monsters are less likely to fire the first time you enter their LOS. However, making former foo reactions a little slower by making their movement/wait costs a little higher (as these are the only actions they're likely to take out of LOS) could be nice. But allowing them to keep firing at you once you're out of their LOS is either too exploitable or too dangerous, depending on if you have cover or not, respectively. Think about it - if you waste all of a former commando's ammo on the wall you're standing behind, that's free XP. On the other hand, what happens if something, like a buddy HK, knocks you back, and now he's out of your LOS? Streams of plasma everywhere, and you're stuck with a 50% miss chance even if you can figure out his current location. Giving him the 50% too, however, would again make this too exploitable.

BDR:
I rather think that everything has a 50% miss chance when firing at things out of LOS, as even with the arena's current allowance for enemies to see the second 'you' and fire at the real you, they don't hit nearly as often as they do when shooting at you from within LOS.  I'm not terribly sure how you'd exploit this, though, as unless you have 3 HR, a load of speed mods, and 2 Fin there's not a whole lot of room for stepping in sight, taking a potshot, and stepping out of it to take advantage of the LOS-less accuracy.  Although, I could be dead wrong; I've noticed on the maze levels that sometimes the human captains are able to shoot at me even though I can't see them, and their bullets hit pretty well (although I am usually shooting another enemy at the time.. needs more testing).

Rabiat:

--- Quote ---Yeah, I find it a bit unrealistic (not to mention unfair) that former humans and sergeants and such are able to react immediately after the player comes to their vicinity, even when they're nothing but rotting corpses with no brains inside. This is especially annoying if it's a sergeant with some barrels around.
--- End quote ---

I agree with TFoN that Former foos are not supposed to be zombies. Also I don't think it's unfair they fire at you as soon as you enter their LOS. You got to move, they get to fire. If they move into your LOS, you get the shot. One of the things I enjoy so much about DoomRL is the opportunity of an unsuspecting former sergeant walking into sight. And if there's a barrel next to him, it feels like three seconds of Christmas. ;)


--- Quote ---With this, it'd be possible to have these cool movie firefights where the protagonist fires at the evil guys, and then ducks for cover, during which time the bullets will fly at him even when the enemies can't even see him anymore. That'd be so cool.
--- End quote ---

It'd be cool in a real time FPS. It reminds me of the slow motion dodge in a game called Max Payne. RLs are turn based, though.


--- Quote ---Although, I could be dead wrong; I've noticed on the maze levels that sometimes the human captains are able to shoot at me even though I can't see them, and their bullets hit pretty well (although I am usually shooting another enemy at the time.. needs more testing).
--- End quote ---

I've been wondering about something like this. Are you certain that enemies firing from outside LOS actually are outside LOS (disregarding the new arena level)? Sometimes I think that occasionally an enemy can see me while I can't see it (and sometimes the other way around). Is LOS actually symmetric - i.e. does a visible enemy always see you, too? I've got no proof for this, just theory:

# Line of fire appears to be asymmetric at times. A former commando hits you around the corner, but when you 'double-f' back it him your bullets hit the wall at low angles. Apparently the line from enemy to player doesn't hit the same map squares as the line from player to enemy. The same could be happening for LOS.

# Also, there's these annoying gaps in LOS resulting from the sin/cos rotation in the LOS calculation. No matter how many steps your ray trace takes to do a full circle, there's these dark spots at low angles. Remember having to vacuum clean half a hallway just to uncover the walls? What happens if an enemy is in one of the dark tiles? It might be able to see you because it's within a viewing range, and you could be in its LOS while it's not in yours.

BDR:

--- Quote from: Rabiat on May 14, 2007, 15:03 ---I've been wondering about something like this. Are you certain that enemies firing from outside LOS actually are outside LOS (disregarding the new arena level)?
--- End quote ---

Yes, they are definitely not in LOS.  This hail of bullets just comes from out of the darkness while I'm busy with a former foo/imp, and I'm suddenly sporting a nice red streak on my armor (which would be nicer if it were paint or some former foo's blood and not my own).


--- Quote from: Rabiat on May 14, 2007, 15:03 ---Sometimes I think that occasionally an enemy can see me while I can't see it (and sometimes the other way around). Is LOS actually symmetric - i.e. does a visible enemy always see you, too? I've got no proof for this, just theory:
--- End quote ---

From what's been said on the forum and the wiki, the only enemy that is intended to be able to see you from out of LOS is the Cyberdemon, and being the end-boss a little cheapness is fine (given that he's still reasonably killable).


--- Quote from: Rabiat on May 14, 2007, 15:03 ---# Line of fire appears to be asymmetric at times. A former commando hits you around the corner, but when you 'double-f' back it him your bullets hit the wall at low angles. Apparently the line from enemy to player doesn't hit the same map squares as the line from player to enemy. The same could be happening for LOS.
--- End quote ---

There is a slight asymmetry in the way the targeting cursor works.  However, it has nothing to do with who is using it AFAICT, and everything to do with where the user is standing and where they're aiming.  Try pointing at a square two squares down and one to the right, then moving to the place you just targeted and pointing at the square you just moved from.  Notice a difference in the choice of the middle square?  It's rather annoying, but fortunately it's possible most of the time to overcome it by simply aiming at a slightly different position (instead of double 'f'ing) so as to avoid walls/barrels.


--- Quote from: Rabiat on May 14, 2007, 15:03 ---# Also, there's these annoying gaps in LOS resulting from the sin/cos rotation in the LOS calculation. No matter how many steps your ray trace takes to do a full circle, there's these dark spots at low angles. Remember having to vacuum clean half a hallway just to uncover the walls? What happens if an enemy is in one of the dark tiles? It might be able to see you because it's within a viewing range, and you could be in its LOS while it's not in yours.
--- End quote ---

I really don't think it works like that, but I have no proof either way.

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