Chaosforge Forum

Other Roguelikes => AliensRL => Topic started by: DaEezT on March 20, 2007, 12:09

Title: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: DaEezT on March 20, 2007, 12:09
I'd like to give a quick introduction to the basic ideas behind AliensRL and how some things work.

Kornel already hinted at some of the features that might come in future versions:
Quote
        -- more interesting tower structure
        -- many tower features, like terminals and special rooms
        -- security and military tower with rogue security bots
        -- taking over cameras and security bots
        -- hacking the terminals to manage energy flow or locking corridors
        -- corridors between towers
        -- a general Master AI (Queen) that fights the player
        -- several objectives and many ways to finish the game
        -- tower structure requiring tactical planning
        -- a more sinister and scary mood


The gameplay is supposed to be horror survival like, with an Aliens theme.
In addition, gameplay should be object driven. What does this mean?
It means, that you don't go around killing things for level ups, items, and gold. Instead, you are working towards an objective.
Think DeusEx or System Shock 2. Those games don't reward you for killing things, instead XP/CM come from exploration and finishing objectives. The same basic idea was applied to AliensRL.
Right now, you still get some XP for killing enemies, simply because there are no objectives or side quests. But the goal is to reduce those to a minimum and, eventually, completely remove them.

Another thing that all of you probably noticed is the inventory system, or the lack of it.
The idea is to make gameplay tactical and a bit realistic. You don't have an infinite inventory that let's you carry 4 red armors, 3 bfgs, a rocket launcher, etc.
You have your sidearm holster, the ability to carry another weapon slung across your shoulder and the option for a third (heavy), if you have the needed armor. That's it.
This leads to some tactical decisions throughout the game. Picking up a weapon you just found isn't always the best course of action. If you run out of ammo for your new toy you'll have to go and find a different one.

The inventory/weapon system also has two special features:
It takes little time to switch to your sidearm. So switching to it to finish off an enemy is always a valid option, if you want to save some ammo for your primary.
Tossing a grenade does not incur any weapon switching penalties and also takes little time. So feel free to toss them in between pulse rifle bursts.

Armor and ammo are categorized into Light/Medium/Heavy.
Juveniles are light, Workers are heavy, the rest is my secret ;D
The ammo categories can be seen in the character screen.
Using ammo against a stronger type of armor (e.g. shooting a pistol at a Worker) is not the best course of action.

One last morsel of info: There isn't enough ammo in the game to kill all the enemies!
So you gotta break your AdoM/Nethack/Diablo habits and stop clearing every room on every floor in every tower ;D
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: bfg9001 on March 27, 2007, 23:33
Question.... on the character screen, where it shows your weapon like:

Weapon: M41-A pulse rifle
Ammo: M309    Dmg: 15/H


What does "15/H" mean exactly?
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: DaEezT on March 28, 2007, 00:00
The number is the amount, the character is the type/category.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Schluberlubs on March 28, 2007, 05:30
Question.... on the character screen, where it shows your weapon like:

Weapon: M41-A pulse rifle
Ammo: M309    Dmg: 15/H


What does "15/H" mean exactly?
The 15 stands for the the damage each bullet does (if they hit perfectly, that is). The H stands for the level of armor penetration (Low/Medium/High). I think thats what they stand for but I'm not certain.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: torch on March 29, 2007, 01:45
Unless I am missing something, can we have a save option please?  I enjoy fighting my way through the levels but only during my coffee breaks which isn't enough time to finish a whole game. 

I appreciate there is a lot to save / reload as each level has to be written out to the file, plus all the items and the aliens. 

What are the chances please? 
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on March 29, 2007, 01:58
Save/Load is on the future feature list, I just hadn't had the time to implement it in the 7DAY period.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: torch on March 29, 2007, 06:22
Save/Load is on the future feature list, I just hadn't had the time to implement it in the 7DAY period.

Hooray and I quite understand that putting that much effort in on a 7 day development would have had a serious impact on what you put into the gameplay. 
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Darwinism on April 02, 2007, 13:07
Per Aliens, where the pulse rifle made its debut, the rifle should have a clip size of 99. Not to mention the pulse rifle's under-barrel grenade launcher, but that could just be represented by better accuracy/range with grenades when using it. Also, the MP5 fires 3-round bursts IRL, and you can bet your ass it won't be used after we're floating around the stars. Maybe a new name?

edit: Also, why does the ammunition in a weapon disappear when you drop it? I never had that problem in DoomRL.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Fingerzam on April 02, 2007, 16:05
edit: Also, why does the ammunition in a weapon disappear when you drop it? I never had that problem in DoomRL.

I think the game auto-unloads the weapon as you drop it. Though I guess the ammo just disappears if you already have full ammo.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Darwinism on April 02, 2007, 16:18
I'm pretty sure it doesn't auto-unload, and I've never survived long enough to get max ammo...

Oh, and I just checked it. The ammo goes where the woodbine twilleth.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2007, 16:52
The auto-unload works when you swap weapons with ones on the ground but not when you drop them for some reason.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Tao_Taoz on April 29, 2007, 17:06
[1st post]

the mp5 should get replaced by the MP7.
shown here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP7) with details.

could always make a fictional version bearing whatever stats and capabilites.

however, you should make all damage in the game much higher and give the armors larger protection bonuses. making both the aliens and yourself take much less effort to take down.
maybe make everyone do things gradually slower (move, reload and such) as they take more damage. Giving medics a 25% (or 15%?) bonus against this and an added 5% bonus with each level they progress in their medic skill.

I find the weak damage system to be the biggest pressing issue with the game thus far.
taking too long to die and taking up too much ammo per kill takes away from the games intensity.

It's no fun having to empty your last full clip into a target only for it to absorb the damage without penalty as it claws away at you continously for well over serveral turns just to take your life..... assuming you're not currently maxed out on medic packs since you can use them one after the other even while under attack.(and surrounded by claws).

things are just too drawn out...
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on April 30, 2007, 00:55
Well I'd like to hear other's opinions on that.

There's a reason for the aliens to be so tough -- they don't have ranged attacks, so they need to have a chance to come up to the player before being destroyed. Also they should be feared.

Lowering Player HP? Ok.
Lowering Alien HP? No way.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: TFoN on April 30, 2007, 05:37
Considering the first movie occures around the 22nd century, I don't think any weapon used now, even the new ones, will be very current then. And what marine would be equipped with such an outdated weapon?
I suggest making the Pulse Rifle the basic weapon (using MP5 statistics), as that was the weapon used by marines in Aliens, finding a different weapon to take the current statistics of the Pulse Rifle. The 99-bullet clip size issue mentioned earlier should also somehow be addressed, either by changing the clip size or by explaining why the clip size's smaller (it's quite a big detail, with regards to canonity). Different types of pulse rifles is probably the best way to go about it, IMO.

I think reducing alien HPs while increasing their speed, numbers and/or damage is a good idea.
Reducing player HPs is definately a good idea, but let him start then with a choice between a flack jacket or a gyro-stabilizer. At the same time, make gyro-stabilizers rarer and heavy weapons more common, giving a reason to start with AC 0. I think giving HW specialists a Smartgun at start might work out fine, in context.

Using medkits during combat doesn't make much sense to me, either.
How about adding stimpacks which add temporary HPs? Application time becomes faster with higher medical skill (and with appropriate armour, with an in-built fluid transmission device?).
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Tao_Taoz on April 30, 2007, 12:23
Lime Green=added text
Yellow=changed text


If you watch the movie you see them taking out aliens with relative ease... the issue was that they were swarming or coming out at them in all directions. observe -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V0J3bVInS8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V0J3bVInS8) :P

a single burst from a pulse rifle is seeminly enough to mess one up pretty badly if not kill it outright.
though for the game it should take 2(to 3?) and 1 for smart rifle or whatever its called.

and just make ammo more scarce or that you only find weapons of ammo around corpses and locked sercurity rooms (Civilian tower), armories (Military tower) and weapon/ammo caches (storage tower). perhaps have the armories accessible through a long hallway guarded but automated remote sentries that you could disable through a randomly spawned terminal found somewhere on the same level. sercurity control rooms sealed with security cards found off a corpse, can be welded/blown open.
find portable welding equipment in the Engineering tower and explosives in the storages weapon cache or some such.


you could give some aliens a little less health (20% to 10%, 15%? idk) less while giving some while evenly giving them better protection versus low level penitration.
but still applying the slowing effect but to a lesser extent since half of "stoping power" is in relation to how a target receives damage to its internal orgains or motor functionality.
leaving only the light force and light penitrating eeffect to help keep off the creatures from over taking you or your postion as qucikly as the would otherwise.

idk. you could make them spill a little more blood with acid damage which could spray in random directions.(eh? ehh?)
maybe burn away that "invincible" armor we wear.

see, my problem was that I was running around with an mp5.
as a scout with only basic training.

once I got to expert things were alot easier.
but I don't like how that works..

I'd rather we develop our weapon class skills more gradually since the current way of development is too slow and then suddenly dramatic.
rather have more levels with lower cost and a more natural progression. so the change between basic and advanced is less drastic. Replacing the words with levels up to 10 or 9.

you can then label levels 1="untrained", 2 & 3 as "basic", with 4 & 5 as "proficient".
followed up by advanced for levels 6 & 7 then onto 8 & 9 for "expert" with level 10 as "master" or "Mastered". 

then either lower the cost of skill advancement accordingly or lower the costs to be approprietly match things up.

naturally, you would recieve less bonus per level then how things currenlt are.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Tao_Taoz on April 30, 2007, 17:26
I had the MP7 in mind as a good replacement weapon that you could use to base your ideas off of. ---->> http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg49-e.htm (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg49-e.htm) :D:D:D:P

idk. dosn't really matter to me.

cept I really like that idea of shoot less bullets per skill level as you were saying before.
maybe start out with the untrained person firing full auto at the target until either the clip runs dry, the creature dies or another target appears within a closer range.....maybe.. just throwing this stuff out there.

Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Zephyre Syx on April 30, 2007, 19:02
There still a gap between exploration, item hunting and alien grinding.  What other activities might be available besides the quests that might help.  ...pfft.  Well, to me not very much.  We still got tech that's not implemented yet.

I'll leave y'all guys alone.
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: TFoN on May 01, 2007, 09:43
I tend to agree with Tao_Taoz's points:

I'm really looking forward to having automated weapon systems throughout the towers, and to being able to disable/enable them, as well as to being able to turn them on the right targets. That'll certainly give Technical skill a sweet use :)
Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: DaEezT on May 01, 2007, 12:41
Sadly, I currently don't have the time to write long replies.

About the MP7 and weapon naming in general: We just put names on the guns for show. We could simply call it a "SMG" and be done with it ;)
Also, the Aliens universe isn't as clean and futuristic as, say, Star Trek. One smart gun guy in the movie carried a shotty as backup weapon. Also, we have civilians in the towers and I doubt they'd freely hand out armor piercing ammo (like the 4.6mm ammo used by the MP7) to civilians, so 9mm/12g/.44magnum are perfectly fine imo.

Less HP for the player: Would be ok now because the game is quite short. But once it has more levels and objectives the HP will have to be high enough to prevent too frustrating game play. It would really suck if you spent 5hrs just to be one-shotted by an enemy.

Less HP for Aliens: You wish :p

More skill levels: Having more levels would be nice in the long run and will surely find their way in once some new features found their way into the game.

Title: Re: Gameplay & Mechanics
Post by: Tao_Taoz on May 01, 2007, 22:35
Sadly, I currently don't have the time to write long replies.

About the MP7 and weapon naming in general: We just put names on the guns for show. We could simply call it a "SMG" and be done with it ;)
Also, the Aliens universe isn't as clean and futuristic as, say, Star Trek. One smart gun guy in the movie carried a shotty as backup weapon. Also, we have civilians in the towers and I doubt they'd freely hand out armor piercing ammo (like the 4.6mm ammo used by the MP7) to civilians, so 9mm/12g/.44magnum are perfectly fine imo.

ahhhahh..touché.

anyway, I'm not trying to make the game easier by having SOME of them with less damage.
you can still make them dish out more damage while at the same time getting slowed down by your injuries.
with their slightly faster speeds and their splashing acid blood damage.
and having them spawn from more random directions down hallways and such. thats what I love about hunters.

randomly having them stalk us or rush us (with periods of peaceness) and ocasionaly overwhelm us with numbers forcing us to to fire and run (which should be a feature at some point). but whatever, moving on...

so rather then decrease the players hp, you should increase the damage aliens do and possibly reduce the amount of medicpacks from 10 to 3 and 7 for medics.

perhaps at some point replace the idea of single use packs with only being able to carry a single pack that starts at a 100% and becomes drained with each use.
picking up new ones would refil yours (i.e. refiing your 46% pack to 100% while draining the one on the ground leaving it at 54%).

With each level of training in medical you'll lose less of a percentage per use while being able to stuff even more supplies at higher levels allowing you to surpass the 100% mark. (idk, like  105%, 110% and so on til whatever amount...130% at max?)

Shotguns and 9mm rounds don't need to do more damage but shotguns should certainly hold them back from advancing as quickly.
perhaps making them miss a turn with the added slowness effect once their damaged enough..I guess...idk about Workers though.
but you'll figure something out.
as for them smaller creatures like juveniles(<-chestbursters? or...) and facehuggers(they even in the game?) they should be harder to hit but have far less health.

hmmm....  on that note... if a facehugger gets too close to you you shouldn't be able to move unless you successfully kill it. and maybe have to switch to your primary before doing so... for them close encounters and all. :/