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61
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 06, 2013, 03:35 »Hmm... Doing pretty well this run, but am low on medkits... and armor... and have the option of going to the Spider Lair.
Do I even have a CHANCE of winning? IDK if I can pull it off. I don't like skipping levels tho :( Decisions decisions... I DO know I have no interest in the BFG.
Without sufficient dodgechance and a good eye for enemy AI, as well as the ability to run for one of the teleporters and clear out the area, you can pretty much expect to take a few direct arachnotron volleys (1d5x5 plasma damage with great accuracy) to the face. If you can handle that and then keep the rest at bay dealing with them one at a time or something, go for it.
As for the BFG, I have to agree with you there - it seems pretty lackluster unless you can get the assembly for the Biggest Fucking Gun.
In regards to skipping levels - you WILL have to get used to this at some point. The Mortuary will kill you dead unprepared and put simply, you won't be able to clear the Unholy Cathedral on a pisto-
Cyberdemon suicided, lol. Rocket to the wall from point blank range. Thought I was OK until I hit the Unholy Catherdral... And didn't know my frickin' guns wouldn't fire until I was surrounded by lost souls. Seriously, WTF?
Yup, you found out the hard way.
The Unholy Cathedral is a melee-only level. Without a super secret strategy and generally being awesome, there's no way to get through it (Bar invunerability and a thermie or 10 invunerability packs next to the stairs down) without some level of melee competency.
As for the Mortuary? Let's just say that you'd be better off hitting those lost souls with your fists. Ha ha ha...
62
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 05, 2013, 17:15 »:( Depressed now. I loaded up that save and was standing 2 spaces away from 6 demons, and they were all standing around a barrel. It was a fairly enclosed space too, but I tried to run directly away. Two former humans got in the way and I got surrounded. When I tried to clear an escape, I blew up the barrel and one of the former humans fragged me in the aftermath.
Oh well, I think we all know the RNG actively hates players anyway. Back to the drawing board.
I spawned 1 square away from a pack of 7 demons and a few squares away from a pack of imps and barons - I missed 4 times in a row with brute 3 while not running and it cost me the game.
Missed 4 times at 98% in a row.
But dying is fun. :>
63
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 05, 2013, 03:19 »And about Deimos Lab: You're on HNTR, right? Then it's likely you don't have Sharpshooter yet (or any master trait, for that matter). OTOH, shotguns combined with running tactics are very useful. You have to run just outside their melee range to minimize the damage dropoff, run circles around them and shoot as much as possible. Also, do your best to fight only one at a time. Double / super shotguns make this task a lot easier.
I believe it's little surprise that the Shamblers are fairly easy with a chainsaw and Berserker. Getting through the Lab to fight them, that's another matter ...
They seem to hunt the player when teleporting - I could never get one out of my LOS for over 4 turns or so. They also regenerate. Could you elaborate on how you run rings around them? That'd almost require .7 firing/movement time, dodgemaster and a pen and paper to keep track of turns.
64
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 05, 2013, 03:01 »LOL I meant A packs. T packs are stuck in my head b/c of grappling boots in AoB runs.
Shamblers in Deismos lab just got me :( Had a really good run going too. Tactical shotty, and a nanoskin red armor. Came in with 4 large medkits and equipped a shell box in my off hand so I'd have plenty of ammo. They still shredded me :( I needed one more bulk pack to make a stormbolt pistol...
I do tend to use shotguns most, but mainly b/c pistols don't do much damage at first. I've been swapping back and forth as needed.
Unless you're doing a pistol run, once you get your hands on a shotgun you shouldn't need to touch the pistol again - you should have enough ammo and can pick up a
chaingun along the way.
As for Deimos Lab - I can't really recommend going there. I've still yet to work out how to do that - my strategy has been to avoid it.
Good luck on the arena!
65
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 05, 2013, 02:12 »>.<
I think my brain just broke trying to do that math! I get the basic idea tho. I've noticed movespeed issues especially with demons while trying to stay out of range using Shottyman and a double shotgun. Occasionally they jump two spaces.
Been using tactical shotguns quite a bit to supplement my pistols tonight. IDK if I can ever go back to a shoot/reload gun again. Being able to unload 5 consecutive shotgun blasts is NICE.
Quick question: Aside from my guns of choice, what should I prioritize for assemblies? I keep wanting to make a set of tactical boots but can't find enough T packs :(
I found a nano just now and can't decide if I want to make a powered red or not.
For the love of all that is holy make a powered red armor if you have the means to do so - assuming you don't have any ranks in whizkid.
It gives 5 protection and 60% fire resistance, making it a great tool to help you through the game - and regenerates, so you don't need any other armor.
As for assemblies, you'll pretty much always want a set of tactical boots (Which are 2x agility mods by the way - not T packs). Make them as soon as possible if none of your other assemblies require A mods.
I assume you're keenest on shotguns - it's most important to make a tactical shotgun. On a gunrunner build you'll want an elephant gun.
66
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 05, 2013, 01:19 »
Sorry about the response. I took a while longer to do some things then I thought it'd take.
I think you're on the wrong track. Rather then certain classes doing certain weapon familes better, it's more accurate to say that certain builds can suit certain playstyles and challenges better.
For example: doing a shotgun run. Keep in mind that cornershooting is always a valid option no matter what class. Scouts would give you the most dynamic playstyle, with access to gunrunner and shottyhead. This would be focused around dodging and using movement to control enemies and spawns and stay on your feat.
Techs allow you access to Fireangel, which allows you to laugh off anything that's an explosion. Which is imps, cacodemons, hell knights, barons of hell, mancubi, revenant, arch-viles, barrels, and cyberdemons. Essentially, this allows you to counteract the damage dropoff of shotguns by simply walking right into the face of a big bad guy and shooting him while laughing as his pitiful attacks do nothing to you. NOTHING AT ALL! MUHAHA!
Marines give you access to Army of the Dead, which changes all your shotguns into armor piercing weapons - greatly increasing their damage against foes with high natural armor or worse, barons that have picked up a unique or exotic armor. This saves you ammo and allows you to cornershoot faster and harder...if such a phrase can be applied to cornershooting.
Three different playstyles and neither is really eons above the other. Of course, if you are locked into one playstyle (for example, you always tank everything), then one class will stand out above the others - because it co-operates with your idea of playing. However, that doesn't mean that any class does any weapon family "better" objectively then one another.
The reason 2dev is manly is because he's a coward. Let that roll around in your head for a little while.
Essentially, the reason that he did so well was because of his movespeed - in that particular run, he got the Dragonslayer, which gives a permanant berserk bonus (60% bonus speed to all actions), but in other runs that he's done he has agility modded boots, armor, and taken as many ranks in Hellrunner as he can. The same goes for his firing speed - if he can attack 3 times with 9d9 before anything can even conceive that he's there, then he can't take damage from everything because it's dead.
DoomRL isn't a turn based game. You decide what you do with your action, but everything is measured in time. The base time for an action is 1 second; ideally you'll want to get this as low as possible. Why? Here's an example:
You have a movespeed of 1 second. You move into the view of an Archvile, which has a speed of 160% = it's base action time is 1/1.6 = 0.625 seconds. The player character always moves first and then the enemies move - so you move into it's view range at the cost of one second. The arch vile then has 1 second to retaliate - with the first 0.625 seconds it charges it's attack, and then (depending on fractional time, which isn't worth going into right now) since you can't move yet, it gets another go and blasts you in the face for 20 damage, knocking you back and leaving you wondering what just happened.
But if you were to have hellrunner 3 (as an extended trait), you would have a 0.55 second movespeed - allowing you to move into the view of the archvile and then plan your next move while it sits there like a derp. As far as it's concerned, it still has another 0.075 seconds before it can even start charging it's attack - allowing you to decide whether to engage it or move out of it's line of sight and find cover.
I've thought about trying a Gunrunner build next time I do a shotty run. Seems like certain classes build certain weapons better. For instance, it looks like the Marine build burst the best since Ammochain eliminates ammo issues. Scout seems to do shotguns best, since between Shottyhead and Gunrunner they can just blast for days without even aiming. Technician seems to do pistols best. Melee is a bit of a crapshoot. Vampyre can be very good at times, but it's hard to pass up the resistances offered by simply having a knife in your offhand with Malicious Blades. I'm sure Blademaster is good too, but I don't know enough about the mechanics of it to understand how :/
I think you're on the wrong track. Rather then certain classes doing certain weapon familes better, it's more accurate to say that certain builds can suit certain playstyles and challenges better.
For example: doing a shotgun run. Keep in mind that cornershooting is always a valid option no matter what class. Scouts would give you the most dynamic playstyle, with access to gunrunner and shottyhead. This would be focused around dodging and using movement to control enemies and spawns and stay on your feat.
Techs allow you access to Fireangel, which allows you to laugh off anything that's an explosion. Which is imps, cacodemons, hell knights, barons of hell, mancubi, revenant, arch-viles, barrels, and cyberdemons. Essentially, this allows you to counteract the damage dropoff of shotguns by simply walking right into the face of a big bad guy and shooting him while laughing as his pitiful attacks do nothing to you. NOTHING AT ALL! MUHAHA!
Marines give you access to Army of the Dead, which changes all your shotguns into armor piercing weapons - greatly increasing their damage against foes with high natural armor or worse, barons that have picked up a unique or exotic armor. This saves you ammo and allows you to cornershoot faster and harder...if such a phrase can be applied to cornershooting.
Three different playstyles and neither is really eons above the other. Of course, if you are locked into one playstyle (for example, you always tank everything), then one class will stand out above the others - because it co-operates with your idea of playing. However, that doesn't mean that any class does any weapon family "better" objectively then one another.
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As for learning anything... It's hard to say. I still can't read a mortem very well. It looks like he went with a fairly pure melee build, with a side focus of dodging. I can understand how that works in principle, but not WHY it's effective.
The reason 2dev is manly is because he's a coward. Let that roll around in your head for a little while.
Essentially, the reason that he did so well was because of his movespeed - in that particular run, he got the Dragonslayer, which gives a permanant berserk bonus (60% bonus speed to all actions), but in other runs that he's done he has agility modded boots, armor, and taken as many ranks in Hellrunner as he can. The same goes for his firing speed - if he can attack 3 times with 9d9 before anything can even conceive that he's there, then he can't take damage from everything because it's dead.
DoomRL isn't a turn based game. You decide what you do with your action, but everything is measured in time. The base time for an action is 1 second; ideally you'll want to get this as low as possible. Why? Here's an example:
You have a movespeed of 1 second. You move into the view of an Archvile, which has a speed of 160% = it's base action time is 1/1.6 = 0.625 seconds. The player character always moves first and then the enemies move - so you move into it's view range at the cost of one second. The arch vile then has 1 second to retaliate - with the first 0.625 seconds it charges it's attack, and then (depending on fractional time, which isn't worth going into right now) since you can't move yet, it gets another go and blasts you in the face for 20 damage, knocking you back and leaving you wondering what just happened.
But if you were to have hellrunner 3 (as an extended trait), you would have a 0.55 second movespeed - allowing you to move into the view of the archvile and then plan your next move while it sits there like a derp. As far as it's concerned, it still has another 0.075 seconds before it can even start charging it's attack - allowing you to decide whether to engage it or move out of it's line of sight and find cover.
67
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 04, 2013, 19:53 »I really need to use Run more. I always forget that's an option :/
As to my preferred builds... Looks like I tend to use builds with alot of stopping power. High single shot damage. Hence the use of double shotguns, HP Pistols, and now trying out Sharpshooter. Not really a fan of burst weapons because of inventory space and ammo efficiency. I only like melee weapons for the AoB challenge, tbh. Just too much risk in having to close with everything, and it takes considerable investment in a melee build to be anywhere close to efficient (although I gotta admit, a AoB run is ALOT of fun if you can get it going smoothly. Piercing Chainsaw with 3 levels of Brute is awesome).
I think you underestimate the power of melee builds - they're supposed to suppliment other weapons earlier on and shine late game. (And also, you can get by with just Bru-Bru-Ber).
As for single shot damage, you could try a Gunrunner build. That would help you become used to using the run function as well as take most of the difficulty. Here is the build I personally used. Perhaps that'd be a good starting point?
Did you learn anything from looking at that Mortem of 2dev's?
68
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 04, 2013, 19:19 »LOL dead. Hit the Halls of Carnage and couldn't figure out how to open the doors, so I used my rocket launcher to make a few. Started to run out of room near the end, and got swarmed by 4 hell knights and 3 caceodemons. With no health packs.
You can open doors by-
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Wish I'd thought to check the wiki BEFORE I died. Didn't realize I could just pop the doors with my shotty. Oops.
Oh, nevermind.
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Also, the Abbysal Plains is HARD with pistols. I prolly should have ran back and used my tactical shotgun more. I kept getting swarmed with lost souls (which is why I was out of medkits).
With pistols, Abyssal Plains is probably the easier of the two levels to take. You have ample cover and can choose when to engage enemies instead of being swarmed - this is unlike the City of Skulls, where pulling the lever destroys all the walls in the level and literally causes you to become swarmed.
Keep in mind that Lost Souls have a 50% bullet resistance, so in actuality they have 20 hp when attacking them with pistols.
The best way to deal with this pair of special levels with pistols is having an ammochain with Sharpshooter (MSs) or having Gun Kata (MGk) with plenty of ammo - I haven't tried bullet dance so I can't say how it will work with these levels.
Oh, and I forgot to ask sooner. Can somebody possibly point out a good build for each weapon class for me? I've just been pretty much getting a Mastery and then building tankiness (Ironman, Tough as Nails, etc). IDK if I should sub-specialize, go for a second Mastery (the general one for each class usually), or just build supporting skills.
Like last run, after I got Bullet Dance I started on Reloader so that I could keep my HP pistols full... I generally like to get at least one rank in Badass if playing as a Marine, since it can make a massive difference in HP (esp if you find a Supersphere).
It all depends on what you want to do - certain challenges and difficulties will nudge you towards certain builds.
I can't really give a good build for every weapon class because everybody plays differently - so if you'd like some more specific advice then feel free to narrow it down (Sorry!). However, as for general advice, I will say this - TaN and Iro are very overrated unless you're doing a specific challenge/action. For an example of what I mean, take a look at this mortem by 2dev. 100% kills on nightmare without powerups or mods on weapons - and he only took one level in ironman because he had nothing else to pick. I wonder why that could be? ;)
...
Yep. And the caceodemon was just offscreen, so when I opened up with my shotty, he joined in the fun. Dead.
Gotta love Rogue-likes, lol.
If you're not berserked and meleeing, as soon as you hit the arena dive for cover (press tab to run if you're swarmed). This will help you immensely if you're not already doing so.
69
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 04, 2013, 18:05 »
The secret to the wall is aiming for either the top or the bottom then camping on your side of the wall - as you can see, indiscriminate use of rockets can blow up your goodies. If you hang around the top/bottom on your side you can still use the rocket launcher to gib corpses as well as having sufficient cover to deal with enemies by cornershooting or one at a time.
70
Discussion / Re: New guy just started playing. Thought I'd join in and do an active play topic.
« on: October 04, 2013, 17:46 »
Welcome, and congratz! Seems like you're coming along quite nicely.
That nasty effect with the lever is just one of the death-traps that KK has put in to torment us. >:D
I'm not sure by the wording of your post if you meant the whole level turned to lava or only one bit of the floor - generally, if there's a lever that can turn the whole floor of the level into a certain fluid then you'll get a level feeling at the start of the level. All of those messages mean something important that can greatly affect how you go through the level.
Welcome once again, and feel free to stop by the IRC if you're into that sort of thing.
That nasty effect with the lever is just one of the death-traps that KK has put in to torment us. >:D
I'm not sure by the wording of your post if you meant the whole level turned to lava or only one bit of the floor - generally, if there's a lever that can turn the whole floor of the level into a certain fluid then you'll get a level feeling at the start of the level. All of those messages mean something important that can greatly affect how you go through the level.
Welcome once again, and feel free to stop by the IRC if you're into that sort of thing.
71
Discussion / Re: Limbo training 101 - with saves (massive spoilers)
« on: October 04, 2013, 04:37 »
This looks like a cool idea, although i'm not going to take advantage of it. (I prefer to work it out myself and surprise die 8D. Thanks for sharing!
I would have thought that Limbo would be easier due to the layout - Less corpses, around the same cover (Does it have cover at the start? I don't remember), and less room for monsters to move. I guess not though - and either way, it's still gonna be hella nasty.
I would have thought that Limbo would be easier due to the layout - Less corpses, around the same cover (Does it have cover at the start? I don't remember), and less room for monsters to move. I guess not though - and either way, it's still gonna be hella nasty.
72
Off Topic / Re: There should a thread for nonsense like this...
« on: October 03, 2013, 23:43 »Egad... BatMotherInLaw... Now there's a creepy thought:
"Keep your hands off.... my daughter... or you'll be stuck with me... every other weekend..."
"If you ever try....to have sex...with my daughter...i'll come for you..."
73
Nightmare! / Re: [N|28%|YAVP] Speedrunner Diamond - Nightmare in 13 minutes
« on: October 03, 2013, 23:35 »Quote
Actually you probably won't have enough health packs if you do AoOC, but if you can do UV 100% with three dead-weight traits (you need berserker for UC obviously) then you should be able to get to the vaults with Azrael's Scythe and a bunch of medpacks.
Good point. The scythe does 20 damage for 5 hp apparently, so you should only need 2 points in Ironman and 3 medipacks to clear it - or am I missing something?
Once again, congratz on the run.
74
Nightmare! / Re: [N|28%|YAVP] Speedrunner Diamond - Nightmare in 13 minutes
« on: October 03, 2013, 22:37 »
Thomas, you never fail to impress. Did you turn into Blade while I was gone?
That's awesome. I can't even do standard N!, let alone in under 13 minutes.
I take it that you used console?
Also this:
Is a great idea. I know what i'm doing for a Diamond now.
How did you beat Cybie anyway? Berserk pack next to stairs or activating it by taking a rocket to the face without armor?
That's awesome. I can't even do standard N!, let alone in under 13 minutes.
I take it that you used console?
Also this:
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Most of the time when I get diamonds I have to either do something sneaky (Bring Azrael's Scythe to the vaults on UV AoOC to get Scavenger Diamond)
Is a great idea. I know what i'm doing for a Diamond now.
How did you beat Cybie anyway? Berserk pack next to stairs or activating it by taking a rocket to the face without armor?
75
Discussion / Re: Whizkid, Modpack Rarity, and Assemblies
« on: October 03, 2013, 20:56 »Nope. Could have sworn I've gotten an A mod off of my tech modded shotty at one point though. But I'm kind of stupid and forgetful, so it might not have happened. I have this love/hate thing going with DoomRL where it gives me more stuff than I could ever use to complete the game, or it gives me nothing. It might have been on one of those "oodles of stuff" runs. I'll test it this arvo.
As someone else recently told me, that's part of the fun of a Rougelike.
Like when you're on AoB and you get a combat pistol and GCB in the same run. Fun fun.
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That would make a lot more sense though. Otherwise it'd be the most abuseable and amazing mastertrait in the game.
Yeah, it would be totally amazing. Abusable? I don't really think it'd be as abusable as say, old gun kata or ammochain. I can't quite remember old Gun Kata but I think it was something like 0 energy shots after dodges and free reloads as well as a free shot after a kill. And of course, old ammochain was *zero* ammo used.
But it'd still be up there.
Yeah,
Mother-in-Law gets a boost in 0.9.9.8.
Just sayin'.
Does it become a unique or assembly or something cool like that?
Oh man, that'd be awesome. Imagine something like...
There is a Mother-In-Law (6d9) here. You pick up the Mother-In-Law. "Another monster to add to the family!"