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Discussion / Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« on: April 18, 2013, 15:55 »I don't want a plasma AMS, I want the artifact to have some use during the game.
But it does have a use. And carrying it is the cost you pay until you can cash it in for other goodies. If that's not good enough for you, you can always leave it and try teleporting instead. :)
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Discussion / Re: Ultra Keybindings - 3 Technical Questions
« on: April 18, 2013, 14:26 »
I found them by creating macros that would alternate calling quick_weapon on pistol with a guesses on an ID. Then I'd run the game and hit the macros to see if it generated the "You don't have" message, and count the number of "already using a pistol" messages to see which one was correct. Naturally, this couldn't be used to get IDs for boots or armour.
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Discussion / Re: Ultra Keybindings - 3 Technical Questions
« on: April 18, 2013, 12:47 »
The new ones in 0.9.9.7 are: ufshotgun (Frag Shotgun), umjoll (Mjollnir), usubtle (Subtle Knife), umega (Mega Blaster), and unullpointer (Charch's Null Pointer).
And although there isn't a return value for quick_weapon, you can still do some interesting things with it. I have one macro that quick_weapons a pistol and then a shotgun, which I use when juggling. Another one quick_weapons the Longinus Spear and then Azrael's Scythe... since I can only ever have one of those at a time, the other one simply fails.
And although there isn't a return value for quick_weapon, you can still do some interesting things with it. I have one macro that quick_weapons a pistol and then a shotgun, which I use when juggling. Another one quick_weapons the Longinus Spear and then Azrael's Scythe... since I can only ever have one of those at a time, the other one simply fails.
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Discussion / Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« on: April 18, 2013, 12:29 »
If you want a plasma AMS, use the Subtle Knife, that's what makes it good. Sure, you don't get the Subtle Knife very often... but that's a good thing, because being able to reliably sweep being swarmed by LSs in every game is a bit too twinky. The AMS has its good use, and the cost is having to carry it across a lot of levels.
Sure, you can't just burn them in the City for any benefit, but the rule about having a plan for them still applies.
Assuming you find a random one I guess. Using that at the City of skulls has little sense :) Yea I actually am trying to locate and terminate my inventory stealers, that's what this topic did stem from.
Sure, you can't just burn them in the City for any benefit, but the rule about having a plan for them still applies.
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Discussion / Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« on: April 16, 2013, 14:44 »
My approach is that if you're not taking these sorts of things somewhere specific to use them or at least have some real plan for it, then you should feel free to pick them up and use them as soon as possible for whatever reasonable benefit you can get. Preferably on the same level, because if you pick these up on the chance you'll use it later and then move on to the next level, there's a good chance that they'll be forgotten and never used, and so they'll just rob you of an inventory slot for the rest of the game.
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Requests For Features / Re: A small suggestion.
« on: April 16, 2013, 13:16 »
Having it as a simple skill or general ability is definitely not the way to go. Play Angel of Light Travel with a non-melee build and you'll learn what's important in your inventory.
Which isn't to say that the general idea is bad... it just shouldn't be easily available or on a stick. If there were ammo container fixer objects and levers like there are for armour and HP, it probably wouldn't be so bad... those are random and have to be used on the level. Similarly, if you could apply, say, a B-mod to an ammochain and have it refill from your inventory, that's a real cost. As a character ability, though, it needs to be quite limited... for example, having Scavengers be able to recharge a container by unloading another container (ie unload an ammo chain to refill a second ammo chain in the prepared slot), and not simply restocking from loose ammo.
Which isn't to say that the general idea is bad... it just shouldn't be easily available or on a stick. If there were ammo container fixer objects and levers like there are for armour and HP, it probably wouldn't be so bad... those are random and have to be used on the level. Similarly, if you could apply, say, a B-mod to an ammochain and have it refill from your inventory, that's a real cost. As a character ability, though, it needs to be quite limited... for example, having Scavengers be able to recharge a container by unloading another container (ie unload an ammo chain to refill a second ammo chain in the prepared slot), and not simply restocking from loose ammo.
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Requests For Features / Re: Balance suggestions
« on: April 16, 2013, 12:16 »
On tact boots: They're not the no brainer they used to be. I've largely stopped making them, just settling for a set of A-mod steel speed boots for the early game. The extra speed is of minimal benefit, I can live without the regen (repairing is good enough for boots), I get to keep the 1 point of protection on my feet (not great, but it is something if I need to run across some acid), there isn't the guarantee of the early A-mods from the Chained Court (so there's not the surplus there once was, making saving a second A mod much more tempting), and, of course, there's no dodging bonus now. I don't think they need to be changed. They're still good (the extra 5% speed is sometimes exactly what I need, so I have reasons to build them), but I also think about going with A-mod plasteel (or any other better boots I can get). So I think the balance is quite good, although some people might still be tact boot junkies out of habit.
That said, and to move on to the subject of mods... one of the big problems with S and F mods is that many PCs can't make use of them. Assemblies for the weapons that can't sue them helps a bit (I was surprised by PS/Plasmatic Shrapnel... I would have gone with an F assembly and the real life dragonsbreath rounds). But what pretty much guarantees a mod is useful is if it has a good use on armour/boots... there isn't a Naked Angel challenge or badge yet, so, other than personal challenge, everyone likes wearing clothes. Improving things along those lines would help a lot... suggestions like giving T and F mods the ability to boost resistances on armour is a good step in that direction. For S mods and armour/boots, I'd suggest the possibility that they do sort of the inverse of what they do on guns by granting "stealth" to make you harder to hit. Since mechanically that would mean dodging, that would allow people to build the old tactic boots by adding an S mod to them.
I think that pistols are just fine without a common upgrade. The other benefits from traits and mods make up for it. So much so, that that's another part of why I don't consider using MSc with guns... it's not much harder to build the twinky gun out of your starting pistol going masterless with just WK2, and then you still have the option to take DG for when you find the GCB. It just wouldn't feel like I was using MSc (and I think that's largely going to be the case with MSc in the big dungeons... it might seem like that's the place MSc should shine, but you'd have it backwards, large dungeons are where MSc will obsolete itself, and that will always be the case), and if that's the case, I might as well go no-master. The basic pistol development path is just that strong. It's also nice to know that you can finish the game with the weapon you start with... one of the things that's always bothered me with CRPGs is the trope where the hero character starts the game with some sentimental weapon like their father's sword, and ends up tossing it a couple levels later like it was nothing.
Not being able to really "use" MSv is part of it's problem, too. The use of it is too passive to really give a feel that you've gained much over no-master. Which is important, if you aren't actively using something then it's going to seem like that... I once started up a game and had a rough time of it until I leveled up and "discovered" that I was shooting things with a Bru3 Vampyre. Another time, I fought the Shambler twins with MGK, and proceeded to forget the whole "Kata" bit, and took an embarrassing amount of plasma bolts. So even if you do have a master, if you're not working it, it will never seem better than none. But that's only part of the Survivalist's problems, because unlike Scavenger, it doesn't give any offense in the skills required to build it. It also takes 6 specific traits... meaning that when you compare it to the somewhat similar Vampyre (in that both are good for being robust, with Badass and an ability to build overcharge as part of the trait), it comes up doubly weak (Vampyre has a lot of offense, and only requires 5 traits -- one of which is a wild card). Now, I can see a reason for having the tanking marine option available, but at the very least, the requirements should be lowered. I'm thinking -2 Iro and +1 wild card (ie require 5 traits like the other quick masters (which include MSc): Iro1, TaN2, Bad1, plus a fifth). The wild card is important (instead of just dropping 1 level of Iro)... it gives people the option to still go with another Iro, or to go with a Bad, or to take an offensive trait (or two because the master is quick to get). Another change might be to change the anti-requisite SoB to TH (or something else). Survivalist could make a decent rapid-fire build (becoming the heavy weapon guy), but having no access to the rapid-fire trait tree at all is a bit too much (especially since MSc at least has limited access). That's at least what I recommend as a start for reforming MSv.
As far as Juggler goes... splitting it into two levels is too much. It can still be improved without going there. The problem is largely that keybindings can be defined to give 'quick_command' access to any weapon, and that's not obvious to most people. So my suggestion would be to rework the whole quick key system so that the player can assign specific weapons to be juggled by assigning them to one of the ten quick keys. So instead of having "6" be "find me the most loaded chaingun", it would be "wield the specific weapon I've assigned to 6". Only weapons that are assigned would be able to be juggled, and any command to wield one (swap, inventory, mouse wheel, whatever) would cause juggling.
That said, and to move on to the subject of mods... one of the big problems with S and F mods is that many PCs can't make use of them. Assemblies for the weapons that can't sue them helps a bit (I was surprised by PS/Plasmatic Shrapnel... I would have gone with an F assembly and the real life dragonsbreath rounds). But what pretty much guarantees a mod is useful is if it has a good use on armour/boots... there isn't a Naked Angel challenge or badge yet, so, other than personal challenge, everyone likes wearing clothes. Improving things along those lines would help a lot... suggestions like giving T and F mods the ability to boost resistances on armour is a good step in that direction. For S mods and armour/boots, I'd suggest the possibility that they do sort of the inverse of what they do on guns by granting "stealth" to make you harder to hit. Since mechanically that would mean dodging, that would allow people to build the old tactic boots by adding an S mod to them.
I think that pistols are just fine without a common upgrade. The other benefits from traits and mods make up for it. So much so, that that's another part of why I don't consider using MSc with guns... it's not much harder to build the twinky gun out of your starting pistol going masterless with just WK2, and then you still have the option to take DG for when you find the GCB. It just wouldn't feel like I was using MSc (and I think that's largely going to be the case with MSc in the big dungeons... it might seem like that's the place MSc should shine, but you'd have it backwards, large dungeons are where MSc will obsolete itself, and that will always be the case), and if that's the case, I might as well go no-master. The basic pistol development path is just that strong. It's also nice to know that you can finish the game with the weapon you start with... one of the things that's always bothered me with CRPGs is the trope where the hero character starts the game with some sentimental weapon like their father's sword, and ends up tossing it a couple levels later like it was nothing.
Not being able to really "use" MSv is part of it's problem, too. The use of it is too passive to really give a feel that you've gained much over no-master. Which is important, if you aren't actively using something then it's going to seem like that... I once started up a game and had a rough time of it until I leveled up and "discovered" that I was shooting things with a Bru3 Vampyre. Another time, I fought the Shambler twins with MGK, and proceeded to forget the whole "Kata" bit, and took an embarrassing amount of plasma bolts. So even if you do have a master, if you're not working it, it will never seem better than none. But that's only part of the Survivalist's problems, because unlike Scavenger, it doesn't give any offense in the skills required to build it. It also takes 6 specific traits... meaning that when you compare it to the somewhat similar Vampyre (in that both are good for being robust, with Badass and an ability to build overcharge as part of the trait), it comes up doubly weak (Vampyre has a lot of offense, and only requires 5 traits -- one of which is a wild card). Now, I can see a reason for having the tanking marine option available, but at the very least, the requirements should be lowered. I'm thinking -2 Iro and +1 wild card (ie require 5 traits like the other quick masters (which include MSc): Iro1, TaN2, Bad1, plus a fifth). The wild card is important (instead of just dropping 1 level of Iro)... it gives people the option to still go with another Iro, or to go with a Bad, or to take an offensive trait (or two because the master is quick to get). Another change might be to change the anti-requisite SoB to TH (or something else). Survivalist could make a decent rapid-fire build (becoming the heavy weapon guy), but having no access to the rapid-fire trait tree at all is a bit too much (especially since MSc at least has limited access). That's at least what I recommend as a start for reforming MSv.
As far as Juggler goes... splitting it into two levels is too much. It can still be improved without going there. The problem is largely that keybindings can be defined to give 'quick_command' access to any weapon, and that's not obvious to most people. So my suggestion would be to rework the whole quick key system so that the player can assign specific weapons to be juggled by assigning them to one of the ten quick keys. So instead of having "6" be "find me the most loaded chaingun", it would be "wield the specific weapon I've assigned to 6". Only weapons that are assigned would be able to be juggled, and any command to wield one (swap, inventory, mouse wheel, whatever) would cause juggling.
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Bug Reports / Re: [0997] Unexpected end of weapon
« on: April 15, 2013, 06:53 »
So, am I to take it that my T-modded storm combat pistol that my Sharpshooter made in 0997 is a bug?
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Requests For Features / Re: Balance suggestions
« on: April 09, 2013, 13:55 »
Well, yeah, assuming that the build is an all round flexible build is part of the problem. MSs and DG are only two of the reasons why MSc shouldn't go pistols... the clincher is the unique pistols. You're bound to see one and if you have it in your mind that you might use it then you've pretty much given up on truly scavenging from the start, because that's too many of the few unique items that you can tear up. Ideally, your plan should be to maximize the number of weapons you're willing to tear down. That means having a solid plan on what you will be using, right from the start. Don't be fooled into playing it as a General master... it will definitely suck if you do.
Another problem is playing scavenger with Ao100. I did that once, figuring it might be useful without the special level mods. It didn't work out that way, I had more mods than I knew what to do with anyway making it seem pointless. So I quit that game, and tried scavenger in standard, which proved to be more fun and felt more useful. Especially the ability to store all those mods from the special levels, which tend to be early in the game, until I was ready to build things with them and WK2. It felt like I was definitely getting advantages I could not get any other way... no other character gets real benefit from an A modded shotgun (and, yes, the Cerberus boots were easier to make, I even A modded them). Is it great? Not at all... but it works better if you play to it instead of trying to play something its not. This isn't a no-brainer master... you need to work the role, otherwise it's not going to be fun (or seem to work in any way). Everything should lead towards your planned goal, accepting that you'll be passing on things that might have made your life easier, simply because that's not the role you're playing.
Another problem is playing scavenger with Ao100. I did that once, figuring it might be useful without the special level mods. It didn't work out that way, I had more mods than I knew what to do with anyway making it seem pointless. So I quit that game, and tried scavenger in standard, which proved to be more fun and felt more useful. Especially the ability to store all those mods from the special levels, which tend to be early in the game, until I was ready to build things with them and WK2. It felt like I was definitely getting advantages I could not get any other way... no other character gets real benefit from an A modded shotgun (and, yes, the Cerberus boots were easier to make, I even A modded them). Is it great? Not at all... but it works better if you play to it instead of trying to play something its not. This isn't a no-brainer master... you need to work the role, otherwise it's not going to be fun (or seem to work in any way). Everything should lead towards your planned goal, accepting that you'll be passing on things that might have made your life easier, simply because that's not the role you're playing.
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Requests For Features / Re: Balance suggestions
« on: April 09, 2013, 05:50 »This is true, but with it blocking Dualgunner, Berserker and Triggerhappy, the only weapon specific skill it doesn't block is...Shottyman.
Which isn't incredibly important to the playstyle as those other three skills are anyways, so you can just skip it if you wanted anyways.
The only one that matters with Scavenger is Triggerhappy. Building towards melee or pistols doesn't make as much sense when your master trait is pretty much designed to give you a source of S and F mods, so Scavenger should be treated as a rapid-fire build. You do get offense as part of building it: the two levels of EE make rapid-fire weapons much nastier (pretty much required if you care about actually getting any efficient use of ammo and time with RF weapons), especially when you add an S mod. You also need the first level of Int, taking the second and making it an SS weapon makes things even better... it's a poor man's MCe, you don't get the damage per bullet, but you do hit with almost every bullet and at further than normal sight range... plus, you get fancy toys because you have WK2. Losing Triggerhappy isn't too bad... one F mod can replace it on a weapon for you, allowing you to spend those two levels on something else without losing too much.
Oh, and another thing. MSc is quick to get and I find that a Juggler start can work quite well (even though it puts off things for two levels). Juggler helps with the toys you'll have later, and helps provide early offense with a stack of weapons (especially shotguns). Weapons which you can also store mods on for later, giving you a boost to inventory size. It's not amazing, but storage potential is a perk of MSc that's overlooked.
This is essentially what you can reasonably plan for and pull off in the standard game. Getting an N mod is sweet, but you can't count on it, so you shouldn't take MSc expecting that. It's not an incredible package, but it is what it is, and you can make it work if you don't ask for more than it's likely to give you... meaning scavenge ruthlessly (ie upgrade your rocket launcher so you can scrap missile launchers) and make your plans around getting S and F mods. N and O mods are bonus and are easy to work with if they do show up. Part of the fun of the lesser master traits like MSc is figuring out how to make them work and then executing it.
As for improving MSc... improve mods/assemblies and MSc just naturally improves (as does things for other characters). But I wouldn't go so far as to mess too much with how scavenging currently works. I'd rather see scavengers get the ability to mod things better... something like the ability to add more than one mod to some assemblies (or add one mod to more uniques), or perhaps the ability to add a mod to an assembly made before getting WK2.
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Bug Reports / [0997G] Interacting with items on floor doesn't register them as seen
« on: April 02, 2013, 05:58 »
The problem here is that using the special mod packs/skulls or scavenging exotics/uniques (with MSc) from the floor without ever picking them up doesn't register them as seen in the player's history. There are a number of potential problems... certainly this affects getting the badges for seeing these items. But it might go further than that... if scavenging a unique isn't registered this way, then it might be generated a second time, even though it's been destroyed. Something that has just occurred to me is that if equipping from the floor also bypasses registering the item, then there's a chance that a lucky player might be able to dual wield GCBs.
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Post Mortem / Re: [H|ArchAo666|20%|YAVP] Dragonslayer and Berserker armor
« on: April 02, 2013, 05:47 »As far as I know, that can only happen if you didn't try to pick it up the first time. (I think? Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
From what I've seen, things that aren't picked up don't get registered. I've used special mod packs and skulls from the floor and they don't get added to my player history. The same goes with scavenging weapons with MSc, which is probably a bug (and I was coming to report).
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Post Mortem / Re: [M|AoSh|99%|9|YASD] Now _this_ is ridiculous
« on: March 24, 2013, 01:59 »
Yeah, my post was about the optimal, but still defensive position. If you're willing to stand toe-to-toe with a Shambler with a wall behind it (so there's no knockback), and have a stack of assorted shotguns to Juggle, that would be the quickest way to take one down. And when you've got two of them running about, that might actually be advisable.
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Post Mortem / Re: [M|AoSh|99%|9|YASD] Now _this_ is ridiculous
« on: March 24, 2013, 01:20 »I did see this on the wiki, but it mentions 1 HP/turn. Still doesn't quite balance the bit of basic math I worked out above (which, I realise didn't even account for the P-mod).
I think you're over estimating the double shotty's damage.
As I understand things (and I'm willing to be corrected if I got anything dreadfully wrong here), the gross average for each shell of a P-mod DS is 20 - 2 * distance. So corner shooting at a range of 2 means that the first shell is expected to do 16, knocking the Shambler back 2, so the second shell only does 12... for 28 average.
Then the Shambler gets to apply it's 3 AC... double for shrapnel, and double again because there are two shells, so subtract 12... so we're back to 16.
Then the Shambler has to walk the three/four squares back into position, so we'll just estimate that you'll lose around 3.5 of that progress to regeneration... giving 12.5 damage of progress on average. Which means you should expect 8 shots to kill a Shambler in this optimal position... except that it also it can be expected to teleport more than once every other shot (2 walks of 3.5, and it teleports about 1 in 6) and regenerate even more, so you should really be prepared to take a few more shots.
I also notice that you were only firing "relatively close", which suggests that the Shambler might have been 4 or even 5 away on some of those shots, and that 10% damage reduction will strip things further very fast... you might have only been doing half as well as the repeated corner shooting situation presented, if that, on many shots.
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