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Messages - Evilpotatoe

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286 / Re: [E|0%|YAVP] True Pacifism! :)
« on: February 25, 2013, 07:29 »
Oh my... how can one have had such a great idea ? !

I don't even want to imagine the treasures of strategy and patience you needed to complete such a run... Kee he he, this must have been such a mess !

my strategy was to make the berserk from Chained Court last until the Cyberdemon
On my quick ITYTD runs, they sometimes vanished before the bruither brothers of the anomaly xD
Crazy, but so nice strategy here... I love it !

Requests For Features / Re: Allow saving in N!
« on: February 25, 2013, 07:21 »
I got to agree with you on one point : save scumming is clearly the easiest cheating method, and about everyone uses/used it sometimes, but I think only few people use it for cheating purposes.
Thats's why I don't think it's worth screwing the doomRL experience of legit players.

When you say other means of cheating are much more complex, I'm not sure, tough...
I don't have a great experience in cheating, but I remember looking for variables in memory with snes emulators... I'm pretty sure some softwares let you do similar editing with PC games. it might take more time, due to larger memory use, but I guess anyone used to cheat knows some efficient tools, and don't have any difficulty for that.
Also, I'm sure using a VM, while it's a quite heavy solution, is an extremely easy one to apply.

When you say it need computers skills... considering it's a roguelike, I think most people here have some.
I never saw "normal" people playing roguelikes. I'm sure they exist, but among my family or friends, it's like nobody could understand the point of playing such games : not enough gloss, not intuitive, too much retries needed... I believe such games only suit a public of passionate geeks, which is something I'd like to improve too, by making them more accessible (I didn't say easier eh, just... much more intuitive.)

How about the ability to earn saves in N!...anyone?
This one sounds really DoomRL-ish to me !
Makes sense, since it would "prevent" noobies to come and randomly start scumming, but would let experienced players play normally.
Requirements wouldn't have to cripple the game you're playing (tough, medkit sacrifice's idea is funny, but just unfair, when all you want is save your game "in case of", or need to suspend it)
But why not allow saving after first N! game completed ? Or after some number of badges ? (which doesn't looks good to me, since some people will have difficulty to reach gold badges, while other will find diamond are not that hard to get).

Oh, and stop referring to the fact that "N! isn't even remotely fair"... this warning has just been copy/pasted because it sounded cool and is quite true, but taking it at his words just sounds silly, especially here, where it's quoted from original doom to legitimate the absence of saves in N!, while it allowed them.
Respawning enemies firing at you like mad with increased speed and accuracy is unfair, but manageable. having to run 100, or 500 levels in a single session is senseless.

Normal N! games do not need save feature
Nor would a 10000 level game need it. It's just common sense to have one.

Requests For Features / Re: Balance suggestions
« on: February 24, 2013, 16:45 »
but FDS is Juggler-compatible

All weapons are juggler compatible.

Requests For Features / Re: Allow saving in N!
« on: February 24, 2013, 11:25 »
original DOOM not allow save game on N! (and famous IDDQD - cheats too)
What are you saying... ? Of course original doom allowed to save in N! Only cheats where disabled, which is unhandy, but more than understandable, since N! is intended to be a challenge, not just a free respawning targets shooting range.
While it is often abused by poor players, the save is intended to let you suspend your game, nothing more...
I admit it took me years to understand it, since I had taken habits of save scumming when I was young, and few games do any effort to point out you shouldn't save scum. But once I grew a little, I realized this completely negates the point of the game... and started playing doom/quake/warcraft... without ever save scumming.

No saving is a part of rules
Some rules are wrong. It's what I'm trying to improve with this request.
As I and some other posters said, cheating is not a problem, both because most people don't cheat, and because the few cheaters will always be able to, anyway.

Make N! game more easy = devaluate those wins
Out of context, this would be true, but the mistake here is that saving doesn't make game easier. only cheating does (and save scumming is cheating, it sounds quite obvious).

About cheating, I personally think it can be fun, sometimes (I still have a key to give me a quad damage, and another for all weapons & ammo bound on quake... everyone should try this at least once :p).
But removing the difficulty often also removes a part of the fun, and more importantly, prevents achieving something.
For long, I tought I'd play on Hengband in wizard mode, or easy mode, just to discover the game more easily, since I was pissed of by insta-death I didn't even understand, but finally I never did... (and even won 2 or 3 games). The fact is : playing without difficulty isn't interresting... (except maybe for a few people, but I think cheaters just want to show how great they are, caring more about demonstrating their "skills" than playing the game)

Personally, I'd be in favor of adding cheats or "wizard mode" to doomRL, for the reasons you gave. But this is another debate, and such things are way less necessary than the simple ability to save a game.

@yaflhdztioxo :
What do you have against Mario ? Mario is a great game... for speedrunning. or for kids, or just nostalgia.

Requests For Features / Re: Suggestions
« on: February 23, 2013, 17:41 »
1) I only think armors should slow you a bit less (lol @gothic)... but I might be completely wrong.

2) Maybe true, but I just use 2 or 3 stacks when I fear loacking of ammo, and usually don't have thoses problems. Also, I got the bad habit to keep ammo boxes unused, "in case of need". Usually, I end the game with them...
My only usual exceptions are triple shotty box use in mortuaries, when I find Jackhammer, and cell packs for fast bosses with BFG.

About Inferno's asuras, I think they ARE doomish... a mancubus with shottys instead of rocket launchers doesn't seem wrong to me, and it keeps all the nice aspecs of a mancubus.

3) Fully agree. Also, I wonder why the mastermind doesn't fire bullets... but ok, let's continue waiting for

4) Indeed, all I like in this dungeon is the music... melee can be fun, but stomping a horde of demons is impossible/too hard when you're not melee, and just too easy when you are. Ability to nuke level is completely random, and the WORSE is... a single throwing knife (and some speed) are enough to clear the entire level damageless -.-
Note that again, Inferno's blood temple is a great improvement to this ! It even includes a warning message when entering (Too bad UC doesn't have one...)

5) Bad idea, imo. I always play YAAM, whatever difficulty or challenges I'm playing (well, I made a few exceptions for AoRA, or vaults without master's staff). I consider missing part of level & XP is rarely worth avoiding a few enemies.

I think information about cornershooting should be added to manual. Because it's completely both non-obvious and necessary to play.

The further I went on HMP before learning that was the wall... since there was obviously something I was missing, and the level just didnt look possible, even with a great start, I looked for some tutorial on youtube.

If I didnt, I would have stopped playing. My brother wouldn't have restarted playing, and a friend of mine would just have trashed the game, wondering how people can play this.
Those bases clearly should be in the introduction/manual, since playing the game without cornershooting is kinda impossible.

Agree on the fact that one more keypress wouldn't be worth it. but with a new command, there wouldn't be a problem.

About the door closing system, I hate it : too inconsistent, and makes me make mistakes, like close and reopen a door, just because I wanted to precise the direction of a single door.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I already did... all I managed to do is getting warning because I call non-existing functions, and as I said, I have no idea of where to get documentation about this.

Any tip about this would be appreciated.

I agree that TAB isn't handy at all, but I think the real improvement would be to add some UI in the game, allowing to bind keys without having to play with config files (and tough, without needing a game restart).
Looks like an important, but low priority feature to me.

For target switching, I don't use it, but indeed, it seems to be on the same function.
Maybe it's possible to call it with a function, like this ?

Code: [Select]
["TAB"] = function()

I think some coders/modders could answer this.

While I'm at it, is it possible to create a binding like the following ?
Code: [Select]
["3"] = function()
            if not command.quick_weapon('ashotgun') then
                if not command.quick_weapon('shotgun') then
                    ui.msg("No cool weapon :(");

I looked at what I could in the modding sections of the wiki, but I don't thnik I could find such informations.

Discussion / Advanced key bindings & messages coloring
« on: February 22, 2013, 07:58 »
Don't really know where to post this, maybe I should rather start editing the wiki ? I got my 20 posts after all.

Anyway. when I started playing, I found some message coloring somewhere in thoses forums. I must say it changed my DoomRL experience.
So, for anyone interrested, noobie or not, here are mine.

Quick weapons bindings are useful, since they allow to swap at the cost of 0.8s instead of 1s. in other word, they should always be used, since using from inventory doesn't quick swap, even when possible (sigh)
Put this in keybindings.lua, with other bindings
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Message coloring "just" helps you notice useful information in-game, and makes the message log much more readable. (don't forget to increase the log's size, to some thousands of lines, since defaut way too short)
Put this in config.lua, preferably at the end.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Btw, I also encourage you to remap keys such as SHIFT+U for weapon's unload, and custom other aspects of your config files.

Some notes :
-I got an AZERTY (french) keyboard, but I think bindings will be fine for any keyboard, since I had to put 'Q' for 'A', and semicolon for my 'M'.
-Before modifying files, always create a backup ! If your game crashes on launch after modifications, either revert to your backup, or look for the error. I think the most common error is missing a ',' in the middle of a list, or having one after the last element. (If you already screwed up your files, just extract again the config files from the game's zip, or a take them on a fresh install)

Requests For Features / Re: Allow saving in N!
« on: February 22, 2013, 06:46 »
Bah... this isn't the point. "fix" this if you want, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to reveal this exploit if I used it.

My point is that as usual, only legit players are concerned by the restriction, since cheaters will always have techniques to bypass what they want.
Do you thik you can prevent people from editing the exe, or editing the game's memory ? I don't think so.
Same for game running in a VM, and those are just the few example I found, without thinking in deep about it, or beeing a cheating expert.
More importantly, I don't think Kornel or any other dev should lose time on this... it's their choice, of course, but I think fighting this is a loss of time.

Anyway, maybe I should have just asked this :
Since the initial goal, of cheat-prevention isn't reached, WHY continue handicapping fair players ?

Requests For Features / Re: Balance suggestions
« on: February 22, 2013, 06:31 »
I think it is. While removing RL on AoMr or AoB looks obvious, it just seems to be a nerf for AoLT.
You can still hope for a vault or lucky drop to get one. On high difficulties, I think it happens quite often.
The easiest way for AoLT tough, is to go for melee. Also, if you find a plasma shotgun and a nano mod, like I did once, you can praise to the RNG :D it's a freaking secondary !


About combat knives, currently, they are indeed only useful in AoB (and for killing AoD without taking damages... which, imo, shouldn't be the case.). Since they are a "ranged melee weapon", and can be modded, I think they are quite fine as they are. If I played AoB more often, I think I would use them more.
But I wouldn't be against a revamp of melee weapons, so that it's not always chainsaw & scythe. So, yes, why not create some cool melee weapons ?
Here's one funny I just got: a soul stealer weapon. When you melee kill something, it stores one soul as ammo. Then, you can use it's alternate attack to shoot a lost soul on an opponent. Wouldn't be that cool ? Would also sinergize well with melee build, by allowing to block enemies lines of fire before rushing on them. I'm sure other things could be added: fast-attack or throwable weapons, a (unique) vampiric blade... UC's weapons shouldn't always be the best choice.

I tried rockets in city of skulls once or twice.. well, for me, it'll still be one BFG shot + shotty. Nice to learn it can work, tough.

Oh, and of course CatEye, it a gun mastery.
But I wonder about Bullet dance, which I didn't even try... probably not that bad, but since pistols weakness is clip size, I don't understand the point of this mastery at all. Also, I don't know what is meant by "firing extra bullets at half the time cost". does it increase the firing time ? would be even worse...

Requests For Features / Re: Balance suggestions
« on: February 21, 2013, 14:11 »
Confirm me something please : pistols suck, right ?
When I say they should be buffed (and SoAG nerfed), it's mainly because
  • I never use them. even when I find a combat pistol at 2nd or 4th floor, unless I went for a gun mastery. The reason ? they are just too weak
  • SoAG is very efficient, but outside of a gun build... it's fully useless. While SoB or reloader, which are (initially) dedicated to rapid fire and shotguns, work on all weapons.
(I don't understand your comparison with CS... pistols suck in CS too :/  Well, deagle scores headshots, btw, but it's not as good as a real weapon... just cost effective.
Oh, and a trigun is actually way better :p)

What I'm saying is just that it's a shame that if you don't go for a pistol mastery, pistols & SoAG just won't be used... I might be wrong, of course, but do many people pick only one or two levels of SoAG ? And are guns often used outside of a pistol build ? (except for uniques, & maybe blaster).
If they are good weapons (e.g. because they have a good precision), I just have to learn using them. But I'm afraid they are just not, and that's what I'd like to see improved.

About city of skull, sure, you're not forced to go in... but is there any reason not to put bullets in ? If there is one, it's ok... but if the map designer just forgot about bullets when he filled the valuts, I'd like it to be fixed... it could replace the rockets, for example... does anyone fire them in this level ? O_o

Oh, and glad to learn that Santa will stop distributing free BFGs  btw :)
I hope it's the same for missile launcher & backpack !

Requests For Features / Allow saving in N!
« on: February 21, 2013, 04:50 »
Ok, I think anyone has ideas abous pros and cons for allowing save in N!
I'll try to sum them up without spoiling myself by searching for older posts. Anyway, for once, I think a fresh one will do good :)

Cons :
  • Bah, just leave your computer running... it doesn't cost much.
  • Saving lets you save-scum, it's bad, booh !
  • Everytime you save, John Carmack kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens.
Pros :
  • Save-scumming is not the only way of cheating, anyway.
  • Would allow to use the save feature for what it is intended to do: to continue a game later !
  • Easiest request to implement ever.

My point of view :
  • Leaving computer running :
    would prevent me from sleeping, isn't an eco-responsible behaviour, increases power bill, is subject to power failures, makes the "game length" stat irrelevant, and needs to keep the game running if you want to play something else for 1 hour, day or week... well, do I need to say more ?
  • About save scummers :
    I dont care. There is, and will always be, cheaters everywhere anyway. Also, currently, anyone can edit and post a fake mortem... why don't people care about this ?
  • Other ways of cheating :
    I don't know about you, but when I saw I couldn't save in N!, my second reflex (first was suiciding) was to think about ways of bypassing this. Several came to my mind :

    • I added a bind to crash the game, calling function "save_game_please". since the game crashes, I get my save ! Could have completed N! AoPC with a lvl 32 character using this... where is the cheat protection xD ?
      The problem, btw, is for legit users : either you crash while/after clearing a level, giving you more XP (and possibly, stuff), or when entering the next (ruining your stats with monsters let alive... something I can't do either). So, for non-cheaters, it doesn't solve the problem at all.
    • Using a VM... I'm sure most RL players are geeks, and could easily do it. Personnally, I don't currently have one running, and am to lazy to install a VM just for that... but true cheaters are often subject to make some efforts :)
    • Editing the game exe/saves, or playing with game's memory while it runs. Here, again, I'm too lazy for that, but if I wanted to cheat... for sure, I would.
Conclusion :
As usual, only legit users are really concerned. Cheaters will find their way to get around this limitation. So... WHY keep it ? while it bothers only fair players ?
I didn't won a single nightmare game yet, mostly because I dont play N!, since I can't save... Gimme some badges please, allow me to play nightmare!, I know it's one if() away... so, why not add it in ?

Requests For Features / Re: Balance suggestions
« on: February 21, 2013, 03:33 »
Requests :
  • Gatling must require two Tech mods and a Chaingun, not two Bulk mods. Or, at least, T+B.
  • Both single and double Shotguns must have the Elephant calibre.
  • Double and Combat Shotguns must appear a bit earlier. On Normal, they are too late for the party in 95% cases.
  • All rooms are accessible thru doors. So teleports don't affect the gameplay enough. Just imagine a risk of teleporting into unknown place/situation vs. trying to explode the wall vs. leaving the level without checking the place.
  • In cave levels, good weapons must tend to appear in diagonal corner areas, to make player check everything to find them. BTW, I love caves :) they forces me to be cautious and carry enough life-saving supplies.
  • Buff pistols, nerf SoAG ! I never use pistols if I didn't go specifically for a pistols build. I tried once to use a blaster to save some ammo... didn't seem to be a good idea.   OTOH, SoAG is insanely powerful... am I the only one bothered by this imbalance ?
  • Add bullets ammo in city of skulls ! This level is already hard enough without shotguns... add some 10mm, please !
  • Rebalance angel of death. Make something to prevent killing him with a single throwing knife (and patience)... maybe drop his armor and replace it with more HP, give him hp regen, or anything funny (lost souls summons, lava trail where it walks...) but do something :'(
  • Why he hell is halls of carnage a free BFG ? I like BFG, but I never understood why one is here... in fact, I'm just realizing, writing this, that I probably never died in this level.
  • Reduce the fire resistance of lost souls ! all they need is an Arena master's staff resistance, they shouldn't resist rockets, it's not doomish at all ! Shotty will still be better, anyway.

My point of view about your ideas
  • T seem, indeed, underused. But I'm not sure Gatling is the assembly which should be tweaked. BT sounds fine, but asking twice the same might be intended to avoid assembling it too easily.
  • I love the idea, but am not sure it would be that much balanced. I dont like double shotty (except against Inferno's hydra queen), but this one seems really powerful. Maybe too much. (On the other hand, a P3 DbShotty would have 12 dices, so... WK seems to be the only real difference)
  • ? I use shotguns during 50 to 75% of the game, so they don't seem too late at all to me. Either I'm too bad with chain weapons, or it's just about playstyle.
  • Great idea. Would rather fit to the inferno mod, I think.
  • I dont think it would change much. The only thing I hate in caves is having items or stairs behind a sea of a non-blue fluid.
  • to 10. :  Greatest ideas ever !

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